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i dont know anything about your alternative product, but i do know of an alternative supplier of flourite
check out this http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/ i order alot from there now and if you sign up they give 10% discount and del charges are pretty good, so might help a little?

cynical

Hi,
Folks, if something is sold as a "base substrate" you do
NOT wash it. Instead, you put it on the very bottom of
the tank (right on the glass) in an even layer, and then
CAP it with regular, washed, gravel. Laterite is an
ancient clay that is rich in iron (Fe) and releases it
into the plants over a period of time (years). If you wash
clay, you will wash away what you purchased it for.

If the cloudiness bothers you and you cannot wait the
sometimes weeks involved waiting for it to settle out,
use a diatom filter on the tank, it will make the water
crystal clear within an hour or so.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 20-Jan-2006 09:42

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Just put the plants in water and they should be fine while you work. That's what I did when I planted my 55g. I just let them hang out and they didn't die.

*Kristin*

Goodness - what a job you had LF !!!

Just with my 1st 11 kg bag - I've lost count of how many changes of clean bucket water I've gone through - and still the water is not clean. Starting to think it never will be.

PS. upikabu JBL is a German company - but I guess it caught on in Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong, before making it here. I only found it in some Aussie lfs. When I rang, some didn't even know what I was talking about (even when I mentioned Fluorite, Laterite, Eco Complete). I had to explain what they were &#8211; that&#8217;s a worry. Also I found you can order it through some of the on-line shops you guys suggested. Hope my plants like it, after all this.

PPS. I'm worried about my new plants I bought today, as this process is taking longer than I thought. I hope they don't die before I can plant them. Robyn

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You can do it (the regular gravel washing I mean), I washed 200 lbs for my 125G .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks guys. So, I've made my decision, you've helped a lot. I'm not going to wash it. Thank goodness!!! I still haven't finished washing my 1st 11kg back of gravel &amp; I have another to go. Robyn

Cheers
TW

Sorry Ingo/Robyn, I guess I made a misleading statement in saying that it's like laterite. What I meant to say was it functions like laterite in that it's a base substrate. I did see this JBL stuff quite often during my recent visit to the aquatic plant shops in Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong so I think it's popular with planted aquarists there. One Singapore LFS actually recommended it to me as a good and cheaper alternative to Flourite (in combination with sand).

P.S. Thanks Ingo, it was one of my New Year's resolution. Sort of like payback for all the help I've gotten here from you guys.

Last edited by upikabu at 20-Jan-2006 07:52

-P

Robyn,

I just mentioned the Laterite in my post because upikabu said that the substrate you have (and I don't know that one) is like Laterite.

I guess if it is really fine grain then you shouldn't wash it. But again, I don't know this one.

One thing is for sure, make sure that you have a sufficient height of gravel on top of it and be extremely careful when filling the tank to not disturb the substrate. One trick people use is to place a saucer on the substrate and let the water flow onto that saucer.

Ingo

EDIT: upikabu - seems like you are a new Premie as well, congratulations

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 20-Jan-2006 07:19

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Personally I wouldn't wash it as I think it would wash the minerals away. I would just lay 1-2cm layer of this base fertilizer, smooth it out, and then make sure to lay a good amount of gravel (at least 4-5cm) on top of it.

Last edited by upikabu at 20-Jan-2006 06:56

-P

upikabu, forgot to mention that I put a couple of teaspoons in some water to try washing as you suggest. The water has gone a muddy brown &amp; I can see that I could easily separate it again from the water - but only by using a very fine strainer so the product itself doesn't go down the drain. So the issue is, just the instructions don&#8217;t tell me to wash it &amp; whether I&#8217;d just be washing away half the goodness with the water. Maybe it&#8217;s like GirlieGirl8519 says about Eco Complete &#8211; you don&#8217;t wash it. Gee &#8211; I get so stressed about these details when I don&#8217;t know what to do. :#( Robyn

Cheers
TW

Thanks guys. I just opened the Aquabase Plus. It is a very fine loose sandy/soil like texture. Not like clay at all.

I guess I could wash it, putting it in a very fine strainer &amp; running water over it. Worried though, that as instructions DON'T mention washing the product, but DO mention washing the gravel - that maybe I'll just be washing away the nutrients if I do wash it. So, I'm thinking maybe I won't wash it.

LF, it isn't Laterite, so maybe that makes a difference

Anyway, finished scrubbing my cool new rocks (they were sooo dirty). Now washing my gravel. It's going to be a late night I think.

It will still be a while before I finish the gravel, so just in case anyone thinks I've got this terribly wrong, I'll check back on site when the gravel's washed. Robyn


Cheers
TW

Hey,

Just a quick one before I go to work, and I have to say I haven't read the previous entries carefully.

Laterite should be washed, I do it for all my tanks. If you don't wash it the tiny parts will seep into the water column (at least during the setup, planting, and replanting phases) and settle on top of everything. And trust me, it is intense and very brown and loads of Iron.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 20-Jan-2006 04:58

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I believe the JBL substrate is similar to laterite and hence shouldn't be washed. Just lay it first, then put a decent amount of washed gravel on top (so it doesn't get stirred up easily into the water column when you move the plants around). What does the substrate feel like - clay? You could try washing a tiny bit and just see what happens. If it gets really messy then you shouldn't wash it. Have fun setting up the new tank!

-P

Thanks guys. After my last post, I got a call to say that my new tank has arrived. Yippee!!! Its 165L (43.5 US G) - more than double the size of my current one. So I was too impatient to wait for online deliveries. So I bought JBL's Aquabasis Plus from LFS. Much cheaper than the other alternatives (I needed 2 bags @ $29 each). I don't think I need to wash it, but I spoke to so many sales people today, getting advice. I THINK ?? they said this product doesn't need washing, but now, I'm not so sure who said what about what product. I didn't write it down, 'cause I thought the instructions on product would make it clear. DOPEY me.

Here's a little extract that's on JBL's website. What do guys think it means:-

"Use: The contents of the bag are sufficient for setting up a 100 litre aquarium (approx. 80 x 35 x 40 cm). Use more for larger aquariums. Spread AquaBasis Plus in an even layer of about 2 cm thickness at the bottom of aquarium. Place a 4cm layer of washed gravel on top. When filling the tank with water use a flat plate ....etc".

Now, it DOES say I have to wash the GRAVEL. It doesn't even mention washing the Aquabasis Plus (either way). Now, I'm assuming this means I don't have to wash it ?!?

I'm going to start washing the gravel & that may take a while. If anyone has some thoughts on whether or not I need to wash the Aquabasis Plus, that would be great. I'll check for any replies after I finish washing the gravel. Thanks heaps. Robyn

Cheers
TW

Thank you for that info it will save me a small fortune.

Thank you again.

Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info

[link=Betta 11Gal Desktop &amp; Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/Betta%20desktop%20tank/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

keith,
with that website, membership is free, delivery times are great, i ordered from them this monday and received wednesday (i'm in vic too)
i buy all my seachem products from them, i also find them quite cheap for other stuff, recently bought a small cheap filter for my 7g tank (new project coming up) filter cost like $10

IMO very good online store for anybody in aus.

Cynical

Cynical

That site you listed is it a free membership and what are there deliveries like (time wise) I am in Vic.

I notice the have Flourish products close to 30% cheaper than I recently paid sounds very interesting.

Could be a very cost saving supplier.

Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info

[link=Betta 11Gal Desktop &amp; Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/Betta%20desktop%20tank/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Yeah, I forgot that the second site is blocked on this site (competition?). Email me (address in my profile) if you still want to know what it is.

Sorry no personal experience with either ones, but loads of people here do. Personally I find them much too expensive here (unlike in North America), so I prefer cheaper alternatives like laterite.

-P

Eco-complete should be used as a complete substrate. I wouldn't mix it with anything.

Flourite can be mixed or used alone. It is reddish-brown and will cloud the water. You have to rinse it a whole lot. Some people like it better. I have about 30% flourite and 70% gravel in my 55g. After a while it doesn't cloud the water as bad...you just have to try not to disturb it.

Eco-complete doesn't need rinsing and contains some good bacteria to help with cycling or minicycles in established tanks.

I am going to set up a 38g soon and will be using Eco-Complete. I love the no rinsing part and that it doesn't cloud the water.

*Kristin*

Thanks cynical & upikabu.. Appreciated.The 2nd site you gave me upikabu - I couldn't get that one to open. But anyhow, do either of you guys have experiences for eco complete or fluorite. Which is best - or are thy all much the same. Eco complete comes in black - which means it mix with my other substrate - where as fluorite looks in the picture to be red - which probably won't matter if it's in the lower level. Any comments??? Robyn

Cheers
TW