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Week 1 Update

Well, if you have been following my 10 Gallon log. You'll recall last week I pulled out all the fake plants in my 25 Gallon tank and put some cutting in. This weekend I added a few more plants and started another log.

This tank will also be with out CO2. I have had good results without CO2 and I like the easy and stable conditions.

This tank has plan (kind of large) pea gravel instead of a nutritive soil so all the nutrients are going to be coming from the water.

The tank inhabitants are
7 Neon Tetras
3 San Juan Corys (Either bilineatus or napoensis )

Here is the first set of Tank Shots

Full Tank
Left Side
Right Side

As you can see the tank is not heavily planted. I will be taking cuttings from the ten as well as picking up new plants. The light plant load has allowed staghorn algae to accumulate on the older leaves. Hopefully this will clear up once things settle in.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Looking good Rick. That is a very interestingly shaped piece of driftwood you have there. I like it a lot.

Cheers
TW

Rick,

Glad to see another log of yours, here are a few comments/questions:

- What kind of ferts do you have for the water column?
- What is the light on the tank?
- I am not too wild about the driftwood, too chunky for my taste. Are you planning to cover it with moss or some small anubias? It takes up a lot of real estate.
- Lastly - More Plants are needed

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn, Thanks I've had that since day one of getting into this hobby. It's mubana (not sure on the spelling) root. One side is very smooth the other has a very interesting texture full of knots and twists.

Ingo,

I'm using the same fertilizers I use in the ten, Dry KNO3, KH2PO4, and Seachem Micros.

The light is a little less than the 10 unfortunatly. This tank has 30W so I am only a little over 1WPG. Not much I know. The crypts and the wisteria seem to be growing fine, but the Hygro doesn't look like it is growing much and most of the algae is on the Hygro leaves.

I will probably do both. The only reason it doesn't have an anubias on it know if that the LFS was out of them this weekend. I'll pick on up soon.

And plants will come as quick as I can. I''m not dropping a whole lot of money on this right now so I will add westeria cutting from the 10 and get a few more plants just for this tank. It will fill up pretty quick.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

If my low tech/medium light tanks are any indicator then you will see how slow this tank's plants will grow.

Compared to my high tect/high light tanks, it appears to me that the other tanks are almost static. There may be an initial burst when the plants are added, but then it all slows down, for some reason.

If you add moss to the wood, I would suggest to put it in the higher regions of it. The reason is simple - you can see it better and as such control it. You also should try to make sure that you can remove the wood for trimming of the moss. If you have to trim it in the tank then pieces will float away, get caught in other plants, multiply there, and suffocate them.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 2 Update.

No pictures this week.

The tank looks pretty much like it did last week. I added a few wisteria cuttings from the 10 gallon but nothing else has changed. The Balanase is look all right but the Wendeti Browns and Greens are wilting some. I expected this so hopefully they will recover soon.

The hygo seems to be stalling. I'm afraid there may not be enough light for it. A lot of the plants are covered in a black stringy algae. It grows along the edges of the older dying leaves.

Ingo thanks for the tip on the moss. It sounds like a pain though so I may skip the moss. Maybe a nice java fern growing on it.

Thats it for now.

Thanks

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

A lot of the plants are covered in a black stringy algae

Not good, it sounds like BBA or thread algae. Remove all old dying leaves as soon as you see them. There is a good chance that your really small amount of plants is responsible for that. Add loads of fast growers, but first remove all BBA/threads.

What is the fert schedule on the tank?
Don't overfeed!
Water changes are done how often and how much?

Take action now, or you will end up like me (meaning - fighting algae for a long time).

Ingo

EDIT: Java Fern - look into Narrow Leaf Java Fern, very pretty.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, This tank is going to be a challenge the BBA that you mention is on just about every plant. Unfortunately, the money isn't available to fully stock this one like I should. I need plant mass to solve my problems and unfortunately that is what I don't have.

In addition to that the plants that I have don't seem to be doing that great. I can't tell if the hygo is grown. It seems that all the leaves are eventually getting covered with BBA. I'm afraid other that the wisteria there might not be any real fast growers that can handle the low light.

Do you think filling it up with Anubias and more balanase would be better?

I do weekly water changes and am using the same Greg Watson Dry Ferts as teh 10 Gallon

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

Doesn't sound good

If you cannot fill it up with plants now then I would almost assume that it will not make it. Anubias and Balansae will not help at all, way too slow growing, you would just ruin them too.

You could try a 4-6 day blackout, but that might kill the existing plants as well as you mention that they barely hang in.

Or try to treat with a double daily dosage of Flourish Excel for about 10 days (not the cheapest method).

In any way, you should act soon,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't really want to do a blackout. It just seems counter intuitive to me. If it hurts the plants then I am worse off than I am now. Also instead of spending money on Excel I'd rather get new plants.

Here is the list of plants from Tropica that came up under a low light fast grower search.

Aponogeton madagascariensis
Bacopa australis
Ceratophyllum demersum
Ceratophyllum demersum 'Foxtail'
Echinodorus 'Ozelot'
Echinodorus bleheri
Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Hygrophila corymbosa ''Siamensis''
Hygrophila polysperma ''Big leaf''
Hygrophila polysperma ''Ceylon''
Lilaeopsis macloviana
Ludwigia repens ''Rubin''
Sagittaria subulata
Vallisneria americana (gigantea)
Vallisneria americana (natans)
Vallisneria spiralis ''Tiger''

Most of these I have no experience with. Would any of these be a good choice?

Thanks
-Rick

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Here are some pictures of the problems in the tank:
Yellow Wisteria
Algae on Hygro
Wilting Tips
More Algae

I did some research last night on plant deficiencies as well as algae, and I may also have a deficiency in nutrients. My water is very soft in this tank maybe a GH of less than 50ppm. A non CO2 tank will also want non limiting growth to prevent algae even if it is lower so I may need to up my dosing and add a little more of my tap water to increase the hardness.

Any thoughts?
-Rick

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

I am no expert, but here are my 2 cents:

- The wisteria in the picture looks fine, I cannot see the yellowing.
- Most of the leaves you show that have algae are obviously sick in the first place (ragged). Algae will show mostly on sick leaves.
- I doubt that the GH of 50ppm (like 3dGH, right) is the problem, I have 2 low tech tanks that never see anything to boost the GH (like equilibrium), and my tab Gh is 1dGH, at best.

- What is the light again, besides low? Is it old, may it have gotten too much condensation, what's the K?

Obviously you need more plants, I recommend to stick with the commonly used low light plants, for now mostly Java Fern (and Moss), and loads of Wisteria and Hygro. No crypts or anubias, as they grow way too slow to help you out of this jam. I don't know about the light adaptation of the plants you listed 2 posts back, but somehow I find some of the rather doubtful as usable in low light (for example the Bacopa - I think it would be really ugly with large sections between nodes, if it grows at all).

Hope this helps a little,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 3 Update,

This update will be pretty short.
Week 3 Tank Shot
Not much has changed. I added some java fern to the driftwood. The algae is still present and I am slowly adding more plants.

Thanks for the advice Ingo. To answer your questions the light in the tank is 30W. Although both light strips are on the front of the hood causing the back to be furthest from the light which might be contributing to the problems. Also I don't know what my K reading in. I'll play with the fertilater to see how much K I am putting in.

Fortunately though, I am noticing new growth on the Hygo now so hopefully it is slowing adapting to the new environment.

My stubbornness and patience will eventually win out with this tank.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Here's a thought. I know it won't solve my algae problems but this tank has no algae eaters. Would it help to add any and if so should I add Ottos, Shrimp, or both?


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Week 4 Update,

Here is the tank this week. I was able to add some more plants so the biomass is increasing. The algae is still present and on most plants but there is a lot of algae free new growth.

Here is this weeks shot.
Full Tank

I also went got another picture of the wisteria. I hope this will show the yellowing better.
Wisteria
The plants on the right are transplants from the 10 Gallon. The plant in the center left is new growth in the 25 gallon. The new growth is significantly yellower than the plants from the 10G.

The only difference in these two tanks is the 25 uses 25% Tap and 75% Distilled water, while the 10 Gallon uses straight tap. I may just start slowly working out of using the distilled water at all.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

I may just start slowly working out of using the distilled water at all.

I would agree, why do you do that again - your ph is too high, or your water too hard, or both?

Also, looking already much better, now that there are at least some more plants in there. To answer an earlier question of yours, Otos and Shrimp would help with algae, but they cannot eliminate it, they are way too small or you would need loads of them.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I was using the distilled water from before I started planting. I was having a lot of fish death in the tank and I tested my pH and it was over 8.4. I removed a rock that I suspected was raising my pH and started mixing the distilled water in with my tap and have been running an even 7 ever since.

I think that I will slowly start switching back to just tap water and monitor my pH and the plant growth for any changes.

The plants in this tank defiantly look deficient in something (even if it's hard to see in the pic). The new growth on the wisteria and hygro comes in yellowish, and last night I noticed the crypt wenditii green is turning yellow and has little holes on some of its leaves.

From what I have read I suspect maybe Iron, K, or maybe calcium. My general hardness is around 50ppm. And I am adding 1/8 tsp KNO3, 1/32 tsp KH2PO4, and 1/4 tsp Equilibrium, with 25% weekly water changes.

Interestingly I don't have any problems with the plant growth in the 10 Gallon with the ADA soil and straight tap water.




Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

is turning yellow and has little holes on some of its leaves

Amano's article in the TFH September issue speaks about crypts, and he mentions holes as a sign of nutrient deficiency. You do not mention any micros that you feed, or did I miss that?

If I wouldn't have seen that article then I for sure would have assumed a lack of Potassium, as this causes holes in leaves as well.

How often do you add the ferts?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 5 Update

Tank is looking about the same.

Full Tank Shot

No real changes last week other than the addition of two Amano Shrimp to help with algae control.

I am seeing some sort of nutrient deficiency though. The wistriea I added over week ago is also showing up with yellow new growth.

Researching online I have narrowed the deficiency to one or a combination of three things.

Calcium - Symptoms include bent light colored leaves. They Hygro is showing this
K - Yellowing on the new growth simaler to N deficiency and also pin hole on leaves as seen in the Wendetti Green.
Iron - New growth yellow as on my Wisteria.

To answer the Micro question I am not dosing any micros specifically. I am however dosing Seachem Equilibrium which does have many of the main micro nutrients. This week I doubled the amount I am putting in and may double it again next week (I'm only adding 1/2tsp and the label indicates a tbsp will only increase my GH by 1) to see if the plant health improves.

What I am trying to figure out is that I using the same stuff albeit in smaller quantities on the 10 Gallon and not having this problem.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

I don't think that Equilibrium is a replacement for micros. Tom Barr suggests the addition of Equilibrium if you happen to have a very low GH (mine is 1 degree from the tab) to add more calcium and magnesium in particular. Yes, there is also a load of K in it, but that wouldn't be a micro.

Isn't the main difference between your tanks the substrate? Could it be that the plants in the 10 get their goodies from the substrate (aka ADA soil)?

I would suggest to dose micros in this tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club