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Is Septicemia transfered from fish to fish or from water to fish? In other words can Septicemia be stopped by taking the infected fish(s) out of your tank or is it IN your water?

-Soidfuf

P.S. Septicemia really sucks...

Septicemia is usually only present in fish that have been stressed by something and their immune systems are reduced as a result. Sure I guess you could say the myriad of bacteria that can cause the disease are always in the water but they only become a problem when something affects the fish's immune system(ph/temperature fluctuations, ammonia/nitrite spikes). I think of septicemia as a secondary infection that takes advantage of a bad situation. So to answer the question, I believe that if the other fish have not been exposed to whatever stressed the infected fish then these other fish should not acquire the disease.

Well, because of the infection I only have a Giant Dannio and a Common Pleco (They are in the same tank together) . The Giant Dannio is infected right now and the Pleco is just being his normal lazy hardcore self. I also have just started to treat the water/fish with Maracyn 2 but it will be 4 days from now till' the proccess is complete. I sure hope that the Maracyn 2 does the trick...because if it isn't one thing its another thing in my tank...

-Soidfuf

I had terrible trouble for years with septicemia in the 50-gallon tank I maintain for the local library -- despite the fact that the water consistently tested perfectly clean (in water tests done by professionals, rather than myself), and I only kept small tetras, rasboras and a few barbs there.

Then, while vacuuming the tank bottom a few months ago, I had an epiphany while idly watching the fish dart down to snap up particles of food kicked up off the bottom by the vacuuming. I have never had much in the way of bottom-feeders in that tank, and the low-wattage light bulb over my head suddenly lit up: the fish were picking up the disease not from the water, but by eating half-decayed bits of food off the bottom -- which of course would give them a far more concentrated dose of septicemic bacteria than the water itself would. That is, they were giving themselves food poisoning!

I immediately got several big Corydoras catfish to accompany the Zipper Loach who was at that time the only bottom-feeder in the tank -- and my fishes' death rate immediately nosedived and has stayed far lower. Apparently this is the real reason why bottom-feeders are vital to the health of your tank -- eating food as soon as it hits the bottom, before it has a chance to start decaying and poison any other fish who eats it later -- but I have never seen a mention of this specific factor in any aquarium book.

I recently mentioned this to a lady I met who was complaining about the same mystifying phenomenon in her tank: she too was losing fish wholesale to bacterial infections despite the fact that her water consistently tested clean. It may be time that this idea got spread across the fishkeeping community.

MAJOR hat tip to you there Bruce!

Of course, even WITH bottom feeders present, the old Innes book maxim is also a good idea - feed small amounts often. Giving your fishes a big banquet once per day might seem like a good idea, but it does not correlate to the situation in the wild, where the fishes have to grab whatever they can, whenever they can. Feeding a small quantity of food at more frequent intervals, on the other hand, approximates much more closely to the wild state, and ensures among other things that Barbs and other 'pigs with fins' fishes don't gorge and pass partially digested waste, adding to nitrogen cycle management issues.

Of course, even with the old Innes maxim in place, some food is still going to reach the bottom. And as you say Bruce, it's a LOT healthier all round if the food that hits the bottom is snapped up while fresh by teams of hungry Corys and Loaches, than if it's left to rot. Of course, this isn't a problem in my Panda Fun Palace, with 14 Panda Corys hoovering the gravel bed every time I add food to the aquarium, not to mention the small army of snails that hunt down odd scraps in obscure corners and make sure that there isn't a scrap left to rot ... speaking of bottom feeders, I've just this moment dropped in the algae tablets and hey presto, the Pandas and the Otocinclus are playing 'push hcokey' with the bits

In my aquarium, food doesn't get a chance to hide and rot.

Bruce, this is one of those notions that's been stirring around in many aquarists' heads unspoken for years, but you've brought it out into the open and the daylight - defintely worth a gold merit star in my book!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Bruce, that makes so much sense! I never would have thought about that! Well I will go get maybe 4 or 5 cory's from the store but before I put them in my 30 I'm gunna keep them in my "hospital/new fish" tank to make sure they dont have any diseases. Well I still am going to wait 3 more days for the Maracyn 2 treatment to be complete.

Thank you so much guys!

-Soidfuf

Whenever such outbreaks of septacaemia occur the cause is nearly always direct contact bacteria, be it ingested,or simply entering through scratches and wounds. In such circumstances I believe it is common sense to always clean the tank thoroughly, especially the gravel, and perhaps treat with a trusted antibacterial as standard.It is possible for bacterial levels , particularly with various waterborne staphlococcus strains to reach such a high that fish will be routinely infected and reinfected, and only a real cleanout and a purge with bactericides is likely to stop it.

Test kits really dont tell you anything about the bacterial content of your water or the substrate.And just to reiterate, septacamia is the systemic spread of necrosis causing bacteria,and its toxic effects on the body, not a condition in itself. The condition is always an infected wound or colonial bacteria that causes tissue rot, that is what needs to be isolated and treated, even if the only thing you can do is clean the tank of detritus thoroughly.

As Bruce has pointed out however, removing food sources for the bacteria makes good sense - if the bacteria that cause various unpleasant diseases in fishes have nothing to feed upon or colonise in the first place, they're less likely to gain a foothold. That's one of the reasons I'm prepared to live and let live with the snails in the Panda Fun Palace - they act as a cleanup crew just as Turbo snails do in a marine aquarium. Granted there's not much gets past the 14 Panda Corys in there, but what little does escape their attentions inevitably attracts the snails. Plus, two gravel vacs and 50% water changes per week don't leave much opportunity for detritus to become a breeding ground for pathogenic bacteria. Proof of the puding in the case of the Panda Fun Palace is in the eating - few complications and manic spawning on a regular basis. Unhealthy fishes don't spawn with the positively nuclear powered gusto of my Pandas.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thank you all. I am new with my fish we have a 55 gal. We have only had it for 4 months and my fish were geting sick. We have 8 angels 4 swordtails and a candy tetras also have buenos aires. Well it started one of my swordtails got poeye I was told poor water then got her meds and fixed up she is back in the big tank. Now one of our older angels is sick she picked up pneuminona yup not only people get it but again I was told poor water. Well took my water to be tested and it is to hard so we are going to get wate we need for that but we bught a python and we clean but I was told to feed 3 times a day. And thanks to you I now no what I need to buy to help my tank out buttom feeders.Think I have enough room
Thanks
Edith

edith

Just a new status report on my new Bottom Feeder strategy: it seems to be working beautifully. I was just by today to check. Not only are all the fish -- a veritable swarm of small fish, including such relatively delicate ones as Blue Emperor Tetras and Trifasciatus Pencilfish -- apparently doing splendidly, but the tank looks sparkling clean, which it never really did before despite my weekly vacuumings and scrubbings. I believe the Cleanup Crew -- which now consists of two Corydoras Julii and three loaches (Angelicus, Yoyo and Zebra) -- are not only eating all the leftover food, but also cleaning up all the algae in the tank.

At any rate, they're certainly not idle -- every time I've gone there to check, all five of them have been busily bustling around the tank nibbling at every bit of surface they can possibly find. (The Angelicus -- the first loach to be introduced -- spent his first two weeks hiding under a rock in the daytime; but after I introduced the other two loaches, he decided he was missing out on all the goodies and emerged full-time.)

Words cannot express my relief that -- after 18 frustrating years -- I have apparently finally solved this maddening problem.