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Greetings FP members!

I am glad to report that as of last night my 50 gallon tank has water in it and it is ready to start its nitrogen cycle.

I`ve been a long time fish lover and kept a 20 gallon tank with swordtails and albino coryies for many years when I was about 10 years old. 20 years later, I re-start my experience as an enthusiast some 6 weeks ago on a 10 gallon tank with a UGF, natural river gravel, a Whisper Power Filter, a Tetra Water Heater, and an external light source. Tank currently holds live plants and 5 Dwarf Gouramis(Colisa lalia), 2 Cardinal tetras(Paracheirodon axelrodi), 2 Green Fire tetras(Aphyocharax rathburi), 2 Rummynosed tetras(Hemigrammus bleheri), 1 Red Phantom tetra(Hyphessobrycon sweglesi), 1 Clown loach(Chromobotia macracanthus), 1 Bandit cory (Corydoras metae), 1 Hoplos Catfish (Megalechis thoracata).

Given the population status of the 10 gallon tank, it was imperative for me to find a solution to my overstocking and underschooling situation.

For this I have acquired a 50 gallon tank in order to house the existing population of the 10 gallon tank and to optimize the numbers for the schooling fish, aiming to provide a proper and healthy life for my fish.

The 50 gallon tank (100cm long, 40cm wide) on its cedar wood stand currently contains: PENN-PLAX 40-60 Under Gravel Filter, 2.5 inches or 35 kg of aquarium gravel, Tom Aquatics Dive Power Powerhead of 200 gph attached to one of the UGF towers, second UGF tower is functioning with a PENN-PLAX Air Tech Pump with airstone on end of tube, and a 20-40 gallon Tetra Whisper Power Filter.

Water now holds a proper dosage of Tetra Aqua Safe water conditioner(25ml/50gallon) and its being left to cycle the water to remove any traces of tap water characterisics. Next step will be adding plants and fish in order to start the nitrogen cycle. I plan to seed the tank with established aquarium water, used filter media, and/or gravel from an established tank, in order to reduce the impact of the cycle on the fish. Im planning to use a school of 6 Cardinal tetras for this purpose, I intend to use fish species that I currently have so that it will allow me to remove 2 specimens from the crowded 10 gallon tank and so that I may be able to keep the fish that were used to cycle the tank with once the cycle is done. Any suggestions on which fish is hardier among the afore mentioned species, and thus better cycling fish?

The aquarium still requires certain things: A wooden hood with light fixtures(2x30 Watt Aqua-Glo/Life-Glo fluorescent bulbs by Hagen), PENN-PLAX Guardian Submersible Aquarium Heater, live plants, decorative rocks, and driftwood. Any suggestions on lighting for growing plants? Is it better to acquire two heaters instead of just one large one according to the tank size (i.e. Two smaller heaters one of 110Watts and another of 150Watts or one large heater of 250Watts? Which would be more cost efficient and which would keep water at its proper range?

The proposed list of fish that will inhabit the tank is as follows:

-5 Dwarf Gouramis(Colisa lalia)
-6 Cardinal tetras(Paracheirodon axelrodi)
-6 Green Fire tetras(Aphyocharax rathburi)
-6 Rummynosed tetras(Hemigrammus bleheri)
-6 Red Phantom tetras(Hyphessobrycon sweglesi)
-2 Clown loach(Chromobotia macracanthus)
-6 Bandit Catfish (Corydoras metae)
-1 Hoplos Catfish (Megalechis thoracata)
-2 Twig Catfish (Farlowella acus)

If you have any suggestions, corrections, comments, critics or recommendations, I welcome them all with an open mind and eager to improve my knowledge on the matter. I strive to create the best living conditions for my finned friends and will go to the furthest extent to fulfill their needs and requirements.

Guidance is what I seek,

James

The aquarium still requires certain things: A wooden hood with light fixtures(2x30 Watt Aqua-Glo/Life-Glo fluorescent bulbs by Hagen), PENN-PLAX Guardian Submersible Aquarium Heater, live plants, decorative rocks, and driftwood. Any suggestions on lighting for growing plants? Is it better to acquire two heaters instead of just one large one according to the tank size (i.e. Two smaller heaters one of 110Watts and another of 150Watts or one large heater of 250Watts? Which would be more cost efficient and which would keep water at its proper range?

About this... You need more lighting for this 50g tank. The heater issue is usually about Power outages. You live in Costa Rica so it should Not matter at all so just use the cheaper option. At least for me using two heaters is for up north where if power goes out or if one fails the water dosen't get too cold. Besides that it sounds great! What kind of plants will you be having?

Chris

I am currently looking around different LFS for flourescent bulbs with larger wattage that maintains the length of 36 inches. Dont know if I`ll be able to get something other than Hagen or Penn Plax brand aquarium bulbs since its pretty much what LFS`s carry around here, both brands max wattage is 30 per bulb for a 36 inch long fixture. I may be able to find some other commercial brand bulbs with more wattage at lighting stores or warehouses(i.e. GE or Sylvania brand bulbs for pet use) but from my initial phone survey it seems the fluorescent bulbs of that length will only reach the 30 Watt range. Another option would be metal Halide or HPS bulbs, but they require a large investment and from my understanding they emanate heat, they simply seem to be somewhat of a hazzle. Any ideas on this lighting issue?

About the plants I also have limited options on variety, mainly I have available the following type of plants:

-Valisnaria sp.
-Egaria densa
-Sagittaria sp.
-Althernathera sp.
-Cryptocoryne sp.
-Hygrophila polysperma
-Cabomba caroliniana (My personal favorite)
-Limnophilia indica
-Amazon swords can be found
-A type of red plant that I have not been able to identify
-And a long stemmed plant with a rounded leaf at the top, as well, that I havent been able to identify.

So basically im going to use what I can find that is intresting if not all of those genders. It will be a matter of visiting different LFS`s and seeing what they have at the time.

I`m also going to use the single large heater for the tank, since normal water temperature in my town is about 21 degrees Celsius it shouldnt be such a big issue to manage the temperature with only one heat source. Again this will be subject to the LFS stocking this product, if they do not have it I will go with the two smaller ones which I know they do stock.

Isn`t life great!

BTW: Garofoli how`s your 29g tank doing? Did you get the Gouramis you wanted?

Thanks for all your help,

James

2 heaters are always better than 1. Heaters can get stuck on as well as off. I've actually lost some fish because of that. If a small heater gets stuck on it will make the tank quite warm and stress out any cooler water fish but you can usually catch it before the fish start dying. If a big heater gets stuck on everything could be cooked before you realize it.

That light is too low for most of those plants. 60w will only grow low light plants such as java fern, java moss, some crypts, and anubias. Vals will probably not survive at all. Amazon swords may or may not survive but will grow very slowly and not look as healthy even if they do. Some of the stem plants may grow if you keep them fairly thin so light can get down to the base but again they won't grow fast. All flourescent bulbs of a set length have a set wattage. You either have to add more bulbs or use compacts fixtures. These use bulbs that are bent in a u shape so they are twice as much bulb length but because it's bent it fits in the same space. Less heat and cheaper than MH but more so than regular(NO) fluorescents.

I think that tank is going to be way too overstocked. 2-3 schools is usually a good number for a 50g and you have 5 there plus several potentially large fish and the gouramis. 5 gouramis is alot for even a 4' tank along with other fish. They can also become quite agressive as they get older. I had 2 dwarf gouramis kill each other in a 55g. If you keep them all watch them closely and be ready to seperate them. If possible I'd either return or give away some fish. At least 1 of the schooling species and the clown loaches. Clowns can get up to a foot in length. They will grow slowly but eventually your 50g won't even be enough. Unless you eventually plan to get a huge tank I'd be looking for another home for the clown. That would also leave the bottom a bit emptier and allow you to do 8 cories instead of the minimum 6. They'd be much happier and more active that way. I think both you and the fish would be happier if you add fewer schools. Even if you can't return any of the tetras I think they'd actually be happier if you only filled out 3 of the schools and left 1 or 2 odd tetras. They will swim with the others some and especially if they are close to the same body color or shape. If you try to put all those schools in there your going to have issues with space(they won't be able to school properly without running into each other anyway), they are all just going to end up mixing together in the end, and possibly high nitrates unless you really keep up on water changes.

Sham,

Thanks for your boldness and straight forwardness, it is greatly appreciatted. You made some very good points that are certainly being processed in my head.

The only feesable way to sort out my lighting issue as I see it is, add a third bulb into the equation. This would increase my total watts to 90, inching me closer to the 2 watt per gallon mark of mid-light plant requirements. Do you think this measure is enough to correct my low wattage issue?

About the overstocking of the fish tank. I do plan to get a much larger fish tank eventually in order to fit the larger species as they grow, but in the meantime, I`m trying to figure out a long term solution for the overpopulation issue. I may be able to accomodate two of the gouramis in a fish tank I`m setting up for my grandmother, but about returning fish to the LFS as if they were inanimate objects, that just doesn`t fly with me. It seems like a complete lack of responsability towards living creatures (Just my opinion).

I would like to provide the dwarf gouramis with a home of their own if need be. What are the living requirements of these fish? How big a tank does a full grown individual need? Social interactions, habitat, etc.

Thanks for all your help and replies, they are very useful and full of wisdom.

James

Hi,
You obviously have previous experiance and are asking some
good questions, and getting good answers.

On thing I would do is start the cycle with the grouramis
rather than the 6 cardinal tetras. The "cards" will put
out very very little waste while the other fish need to
be out of the 10G tank more imperatively, and being larger
in mass, will eliminate more waste. The cycle of a 50G
tank with 6 "cards" would take forever.

As far as lighting is concerned, skip the MH lights, you
do not want them. They give off huge amounts of heat that
will directly affect the tank temperature, and the light
is the wrong "K" rating for the plants in the tank.
The ideal lighting for the tank would be to go with the
Compact Fluorescent Bulb. With that tank, and the CF bulbs
you could easily reach any wpg rating you or the plants
desired. You can get a hood that holds two 24 inch CFs
and at 96 watts each could give you 3+ wpg...Enough for
any plant.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Mr. Frank,

Your wise words are always welcome and your input always honored.

Your suggestion on using the gouramis to cycle the tank... GENIUS! It will relieve some of the stress of my overstocked 10 gallon tank and will certainly create a more significant impact on the developing cycle of the 50 gallon tank. I read that Gouramis are somewhat hardy fish and the fact that I am seeding the tank very heavily with bacteria will lower the impact of the Nitrogen spikes in the system. My-Oh-My are they going to enjoy being in that 50 gallon!It just puts a smile on my face!

Still in search of CFB`s in local commerce, trying to find out what products they stock and carry. I`d much rather acquire something that is already in the country and not have it flown in given the type of product, it would probably not arrive in one piece.

I am very gratefull with all the help provided by you and the rest of the posters in FP, it`s a great source of information.

My humble appreciation,

James

Red P, you just reminded me of the Guinness commercials...Genius!

I think returning a fish so that it can find a bigger more suitable home is far more responsible than trying to hold onto it when you do not have a large enough tank. Many times when dealing with animals it's good to realize when you've taken on more than you can handle and find appropriate homes for them. Something I learned very quickly when I started doing small animal rescue. I've had to give up many animals to other rescues, shelters, or individuals in the hopes that they would find better homes and so that I could take in other animals that I could care for properly. If you eventually plan to upgrade again then the clown would be fine for now since they are slow growers but if you do not plan to get a bigger tank in the future I do not think it would be fair to try to keep it and knowingly cause stunting or a shortened lifespan. Same with overstocking the other fish. I fail to see how trying to find them a home with someone who has the space is less responsible than cramming them all together in a situation they may not find to their liking. Irresponsible is the people who either leave them in the obviously too small of tank till they die or flush them so they don't have to deal with it anymore.

To cycle the tank I'd just move the fish over slowly. I'd move 2-3 of the tetras, wait a week, move 2-3 more, wait another week, and so on until all fish are moved. Test ammonia during that time and wait a little longer if it gets too high but doing it that way you shouldn't see a noticeable cycle except the nitrates will eventually begin to go up and it should cause no harm to the fish. When they are all moved then bring your schools up instead of buying more fish before you lighten the load in the 10g. That worked well when moving all the fish from my 55 to 90g tank and even the most sensitive ones had no problems since the ammonia barely reached testable levels. You will also then be able to use your 10g as a quarantine tank when buying new tetras instead of running the risk of introducing disease to your current fish and new tank.

Sham,

I couldnt aggree with u more on the above mentioned cases.

Thanks for the cycling tips, I believe I`ll start off with the Dwarf Gouramis because they need to be out of the 10 gallon tank, I will continue to add fish in batches of 2 or 3 every week or week and a half, pending on my ammonia test results, until I`ve transfered the whole lot from the 10 to the 50 gallon. Once they are settled in, I will start planning on adding more fish and arranging the gouramis in another tank or figuring something out in order to keep the tetras in school and maintain my stock at an adequate level.

I definately need a quarantine tank! I had a 5 gallon that was serving that purpose, but it had to be transformed into a nursery tank for my 3 day old Gold metallic Lyretail Molly fry wich are already 1.5 cm long, so the 10 gallon and the 5 gallon setup will be turned into Molly tanks since they are on a 2 level stand and function as a unit.

Quarantine tank will need another location hopefully a little further away from the rest of the tanks, and even if its a little to hasty, there are plans in the making for getting a way bigger tank to accomodate my large growing fish like the clown loach or hoplos catfish.

Thanks for your replies, suggestions and corrections.

James

**cough-cough** pffft-pfffffft**blows dust off surface**


Well it's been a while...

The tank has gone through a major Flexibacter columnaris outbreak and is now disease ridden, ready to take on renovations and improvements.

A lot has changed in the time that the tank has been under treatment and due to the current turn of events the plans for the tank must be re-evaluated and adjusted.

Here is the current stocking list:

-5 Marble Hatchetfish(Carnegiella strigata)(1.5" )
-5 Red Phantom tetras(Hyphessobrycon sweglesi)(1.5" )
-4 Cardinal tetras(Paracheirodon axelrodi)(1.5" )
-2 Whiptail Catfish(Rineloricaria sp.)(4" )
-1 Hoplos Catfish(Megalechis thoracata)(4.5" )
-1 Twig Catfish(Farlowella mariaelenae)(5" )
-9 Amano Shrimp(Caridina japonica)(1-1.5" )

Proposed stocking list:

-5 Marble Hatchetfish(Carnegiella strigata)
-5 Cardinal tetras(Paracheirodon axelrodi)
-5 Green Fire tetras(Aphyocharax rathburi)
-5 Rummynosed tetras(Hemigrammus bleheri)
-5 Red Phantom tetras(Hyphessobrycon sweglesi)
-5 Bandit Catfish (Corydoras metae)
-2 Twig Catfish (Farlowella acus)
-2 Whiptail Catfish(Rineloricaria sp.)
-9 Amano Shrimp(Caridina japonica)

I cut out most of the larger fish from the list, I still have them but will set up a much larger tank for them since that is what they need.

How does this stocking list look to you?

Would it be ok to bump up the shoals to 6 instead of 5 without compromising their health?

Also plans are in place to set up a Fluval or a Penn-Plax cannister filter that can process some 250+ gph. Any thoughts on which works better?

The tank now has 90 watts shinning upon the heavily planted bottom and at 1.8 wpg the plants are doing quite allright and it has evolved into a nice little garden with lots of hiding places.

I appreciatte all the ideas, comments, suggestions and corrections that you may provide and welcome them with open arms.

Thanks for everything,

James

hello red,
listening to the canister people talk filters the fluval is alot better and better known as for the stocking it sounds like it would look nice keep up the good work but you might be a bit over stocked if you go with he proposed stocking list if im to late oh well but keep it as current stock list



33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

Thanks for the reply platy boy.

I'll stick with Fluval as first choice for a cannister.

Stocking is at a hold at the moment and undergoing serious re-evaluation, so current stocking is what applies.

Im in no serious rush since the tetras seem to be very happy as they are, but I would like to see the school of green flames and rummies each at 5 individuals.

The Hoplos catfish is going out of there since he is outgrowing that tank real fast and is a real busy body, he certainly needs a longer setup.

One of the rineloricarias will probably have to go as well, since I caught them bickering over food once that I fed frozen blood worms. They are probably both males and are setting the boundaries of their territory, so if there is another episode between them, they will have to pull straws to see who stays and who goes.

The only major concern is my metae cory, who needs to get some playmates, but I haven't found that particular species in stock at any reputable LFS(He was actually not an import and was bred in the country by an enthusiast who hasnt reproduced any more of them. He is even smaller than regular metaes). So finding them and quarantining in order to fill in the cory shoal IS my main concern. They may or may not go into the 50 gallon, pending evaluation of stock and bioload.

So all of whats indicative here is that I need some larger tanks! I've started the process of acquiring materials for building a 3 level, wall and floor mounted, metal stand that will fit 1.5 meter long tanks (110 US gallons). In hope that they will house my current stock happily.

Signing out from rainy Costa Rica... Until the next status report.

James

Good news!

Past Monday I rang my favorite LFS up and asked them if they had metae corys, which they did! They had 6 of them left from the weekend which I requested they would save for me. So now theres 6 metaes in a 10 gallon QT at home and will be introduced to the resident cory in the term of a month if all goes well.

Seeing the new corys shoal makes it really noticeable of how important it is to keep these fish in a group.

Also the rineloricarias seem to have resolved their feud since they have been very passive the last week, even sharing their grazing grounds and food.

One more step towards keeping them pampered and happy, on with the next...

James

A picture of the tank...

Attached Image:

Phantom Garden