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The thing is, if they really were pefectly fine they'd look more like bruce
and no those arent my hands (I wish I owned bruce he's a nice size!) it's an adult males hands....to give some perspective for the image.

My issue with this threads situation is 1)an experienced fishkeeper gloating over a situation that is less than ideal for the fish 2) nothing being done to correct the situation 3) teaching another generation that it's okay to keep fish that should get 2-3 feet long in an environment that will keep them from reaching their proper adult size.

It's been mentioned plenty of times before but many fashions that women have had to endure in the past from corsets pulled too tightly to the chinese foot binding may have been upheld despite the negitive impacts on the health of those involved.

^_^ [hr width='40%']"Love's the Funeral Of Hearts,and an ode for cruelty,
When angels cry blood, on flowers of evil in bloom"[/font]

Amazing how much they can tolerate, and the ones we dote over seem so delicate

Exactly Calla!
Little monsters, I'm sure it's a fish conspiracy just to mess with our minds

Bizzare isn't it?

Amazing how much they can tolerate, and the ones we dote over seem so delicate



For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

About six replies back I stated
"If people had read my recent threads about my sudden deaths caused by the same water you would be wondering at how these two GF are still very happy, yet, I lost most of my bottom fish all except the BNs and three Clown Loaches."

After all these sudden death problems faced by experienced people it just amazed me to see these happy fellas who just get the same tap water as I do and never any chemicals added


I also mentioned they also got once water directly from the Hot Water tap and even this did not effect them.

This was the point of the posting, it was not is it correct to have GF in a small tank. I have seen many Bettas set ups sold in far smaller tanks/jars at the local LFS.

[link=Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tanks]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/Betta%20desktop%20tank/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

[link=Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.]http://www.fishprofiles.com" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Is she on town water?

That occurred to me too Calla, it must be pretty good water. Not every town has really heavy chlorination.

Like Frank says she is an adult. I would leave her be with the tank size and gift a bottle of Prime like Calla

I am sure she is getting enjoyment out of little guys.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

You could always end up with the same problem Sin ran into when she gifted a larger tank and filter to her sister for a stunted goldfish.

Her sister went and bought more fish to 'fill up the tank'.


Not great to encourage, but it certainly is interesting how much they can tolerate, especially now with our water being the way it is.

I am not a 'goldie in a 30usg+ from birth' type person, and being reasonable about it, i'd just give her a bottle of dechlor and let that be that. (I should ask, is she on town water?)

Maybe just link her to something on ammonia burn, give her some ammolock and say its getting worse cause of the drought?

Last edited by Callatya at 06-Oct-2005 07:03

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

I had my first fish in a too small container I received as a gift. When I knew better I did better.

Some would argue my office tank is still too small ... they are healthy, looked after and most of all LOVED. They make my day being at work for me each day.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

I think it would be best to get a tank for her as a gift, as said above. It wouldnt be offensive, and it would sort of be nice for the goldfish, the daughter, and your own image , you might even incourage her to get a 10 gallon herself, which you know how cheap they are, for her goldfish just by persuasion. You've been in the hobby long enough, i'm 100% sure you can persuade her or buy her a tank thats worth about $10.

I've written something very similar to this when there was up-roar to the Whale Shark in an aquarium in Japan. If we were so concerned about the welfare of fish we wouldn't keep any fish in tanks, subject them to the nitrogen cycle and various unnatural chemical reactions, big hands and faces in their tank, blah, blah, blah. In fact we probably should have any domestic animals at all. We do it because as humans it makes us happy and we are selfish creatures by nature. 2 little goldfish in a little tank, who are well fed and looked after is not the end of the world. There is a lot worst cruelty to animals in the world, so to spit the dummy about these two little fish, in my opinion, is a little OTT. I think we need to chill out a little.

Last edited by fishymama at 05-Oct-2005 00:32

I think the answer is simple- for every fish like that that survives , several hundred die elsewhere from being kept in the same conditions. We shouldnt be encouraging it.

They may seem healthy now, but what if dwarfing sets in? It wont all seem so clever then. Less than 10 years lifespan for a goldfish sucks.

Come on Keith, it must be worth a bit of emotional blackmail to get them into a bigger tank. Personally I never fail to upset someone if thats what it takes to get the fish better conditions ! Thats why (amongst other reasons) i'm a git. But a damn good one! My old mum is a vicious crone with no idea of animal care and I meter out the tongue lashings accordingly- why should I be the only one who suffers! lol.

Put that rusty old helmet on , pick up your crooked lance, and be a white knight for the fish .

Take one for the team!



Last edited by longhairedgit at 04-Oct-2005 19:17

If people had read my recent threads about my sudden deaths caused by the same water you would be wondering at how these two GF are still very happy, yet, I lost most of my bottom fish all except the BNs and three Clown Loaches.

I also have seen some Bettas in jars so small they can not move much at all.

My Betta had to actually learn how to swim proberly it has taken about a month for him to develop so that he can now happily swim into a current and play in the air bubbles.

Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info

[link=My Betta Desktop tank photos]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

I can understand why some people are upset here but I've seen similar to what Keith has been talking about and been totally amazed at how these fish survive when the owners do eveything opposite to what we know is the best way to keep fish.

I've seen people keep their bettas in tiny little tanks that are almost putrid and yet they survive several years like this? And yet I do everything possible to keep bettas as happy and healthy as possible and the longest I've ever kept one is 16 months
What can Iyou say to these sort of people ? "Your fish would be much happier if their tank was cleaned more often... get a larger tank and your fish will be much happier and probably live longer"? When I do all that and more(and other people I know) and they don't survive half the time that the "suffering" one does

I can understand where Keith's coming from here, despite what we all know about how we "should" keep fish, it's a bit hard to convince someone of that when their fish seem to be doing perfectly fine that way things have been done up til now.

And the last way you're EVER going to be teach anyone, anything is to go off the way some people have been in here


*note... I would never keep a goldfish in anything near that small , I just objected to the where this whole thread was going*

My daughter (40) asked me to clean her childrens 1gal glass tank. This included replacing the substrate and washing a few live stem plants.

GF removed and placed into a small container water direct from the tap.

I cleaned the tank and washed the new natural stone.

Stones added then the stem plants water again direct from the tap.

Next add the GF

NOTE no chemicals added in two years no chemicals have ever been added to this small tank.
YES they are the same two fish.
Then she fed them about 1hr after I had finished.

At one water change 100% ever time the water added was directly from the HW tap yes they survived quickly changed again directly from the tap again.

Our Aussie Gold Fish are tough.

I will be posting a photo of this tank in PB next week

Keith

Last edited by keithgh at 15-Sep-2005 01:51

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

your a handy guy , build a custom tall tank and give it to them as a present , or a corner tank to fit where the other one sits.

OH TOLEEDY!

Second photo
Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info

[link=My Betta Desktop tank photos]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

keithgh attached this image:


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

dan76
Dan I dont know old you are but you dont tell a 40 yld inderpendent woman what to do, that is if you value you life.

This daughter is 40 yld and besides the fish are perfectly healthy.

When she bought them the LFS did not have any of the chemicals she required and they never got them in for at least a month and that is how it all started.

Here is a photo it might be a little bigger than a one Gall but if so not much.

The tank is in a Bathroom away from all kitchen fumes and noise the room is also heated therefore the tank is never cold.

Keith

keithgh attached this image:


Last edited by keithgh at 20-Sep-2005 23:43[/font]

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

from the avice keith gives other people he should be able to do something to get these fish in an adequate sized tank. especially since it is his daughters tank, he could just pull rank and tell her to upgrade.

Last edited by dan76 at 20-Sep-2005 21:49

OH TOLEEDY!

They aren't Keith's fish. Arguing wouldn't do much good.

---

I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

I don't understand why you aren't getting flamed for this post!! When I said I had a goldfish in a 20 gallon tank I was pretty much told I was killing the fish and I was the devil incarnate if I didn't move the fish immediately!!!! Thats a 19 gallon difference and the responses you got were way more mild than the ones I got!

Those two gold fish were perfectly happy and healthy before that tank they were in a smaller plastic round tank.

Yes they have never had any chemicals added to their water in two years.

I think the very old saying is perfect for them. "If it aint broke dont fix it"

I forgot to add a 7 month cat sits on the top and puts his paw into the tank for a drink.

I know this breaks every rule ever written about keeping fish. The daughter also has the same water supply as me and as I stated never treats the water.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW