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if the plants are dying in there, then maybe I should just take them out

Well, yes and no

If the plants are dying in general then removing them would be the best option. But a planted tank is always better for water stability and fish. I would say that you should identify what the problem is and correct it (may have been the lack of water changes - I suggest for today a 50% change) and only remove the few leaves that are dying. Do not remove the whole plant and replant it afterwards as the plant would have to settle anew.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I trimmed the leaves that were dying and vacced the gravel, plus a 50% water change. I was trying not to change the water constantly because I didn't want to interrupt the cycling. So, that makes the third water change in two weeks. I have the worst time keeping the bacteria alive in my tanks. When my other tank mini cycled it took longer than I expected for it to spring back. I haven't had any trouble with ammonia at all in this tank, but the nitrates and nitrites are always high. I took out the unknown plants, as they aren't rooting at all and they've been in there longer than the amazon swords. They're now in a little bucket of tankwater from the change with some new plants my husband picked up. I wish he wouldn't buy stuff for the aquarium without asking me. I don't like the way hornwort looks, and half the stalks of these are brown already, so they have to be trimmed down. I just don't want to throw them in my tank if they look half dead. I was also wondering if anyone has had any experience with Najas guadalupensis. It's supposed to grow really fast and can be floated or planted.

Also, when I trimmed the swords, I don't know if I should have just cut off the leaf, or the whole stem, I was afraid I'd disturb the roots so I just cut the leaf off and left the stem. I'm going to go by the petstore today and see if I can get something to put in the water for the plants. It won't make algae grow will it?

These are the platies my husband wants. http://ekkwill.stores.yahoo.net/redwhitcalpl.html
Would two males and three females be ok? Or would I need to have more like, 2 males and 5 females?

If you are going to keep adding plants (or if your husband is) I would upgrade the lighting. You have under 1 watt per gallon now, and while some plants will "live" they won't thrive. The swords should probably have around 2wpg over them to do well.

Wow, 10ppm nitrItes. That is high. I would do more frequent water changes, for the fish's sake.

When you trim the swords, cut the whole stem off...just cut is as far as you can to the roots without disturbing them.

Oh and like LF said, trim the plant inside the tank. Don't take it out to trim it. Uprooting and replanting is not good for the plant.

For the platies, I think 2 males and 3 females would be fine. Its always better to get more females.

*Kristin*

He's growing more and more impatient too, he keeps looking at my fish tank and telling me that he could put his fish in there until his tank cycles. He needs therapy. Would getting new lighting require me to change the whole hood, or would I be able to change the bulb that already in the fixture? Or is the size in there now pretty much what I'm stuck with? I wouldn't mind buying a new hood, I'd just like to know before I go shopping for... whatever I'm going to be getting. I don't get paid until tomorrow though, and I told my husband already my paycheck is gone. I've been buying so much for the fish, now within three months we have two fish tanks, my poor cat and dog want new toys and treats and beds. So I have to go spoil everybody tomorrow. I did find a 50g aquarium for $199. I really need a python too. I have a cheap, generic gravel vac from walmart, but it requires buckets and more buckets. So it would be nice to just stick the python in and thread it's hose out the door. I have to plan how many fish I'm getting in the begining, so my husband can't get to the petstore and go "OOOO! Let's get one of those!" I just want there to be a good ratio of male to female for the livebearers, because I don't want the females being chased too much. I'm still wondering about the Najas guadalupensis. It would be nice to put in a breeding net to keep the mom away from her babies if I ever decided for any reason to keep some of them. Or just planted along the bottom front of the tank. I need at least a 60w bulb right? I don't even know if they make those, I don't know anything at all about aquarium lighting. But I'll check and see what they have. I'm not even sure I'd know how to change the bulb in my light fixture, lol. I need to go check that as well.

I'm afraid you won't be able to find a bulb high enough in watts that will fit in your existing hood. You will probably need to buy a new fixture...which can be expensive.
They do make retrofit kits sold here. They have alot of options...not sure if they have around 60w kit though. You would have to get someone who knows what they are doing to install it though.

Another option is just to buy a new fixture. I have this over my 29g. You will probably need a glass top though...see one thing leads to another. That fixture is 65w...or ~2.3wpg which is great. IMO $58 isn't that much. You also get their brand bulbs for 1/2 price (like $11), so you can get a 10000K bulb if you want.

Drs Foster and Smith sell glass tops. I think mine was about $15. They have an All-Glass brand and a Perfecto brand. They have the measurements listed by each size (width and such), so you can make sure they will fit.

I'm not sure about the plant you mentioned. I went to www.tropica.com but couldn't find it. That site has just about everything (except the one your looking for). Maybe the other experienced plant people have heard of that.

I just have to mention that Pythons are great. You can get rid of the buckets if you get a Python. I bought mine from Walmart...the $25 was worth it.

The LFS is going to have a bunch of bulbs. They may or may not fit in your hood. Most likely they won't be enough watts. They may say Plant bulbs or something like that...but pay attention to the watts. I would shoot for atleast 60w...but I don't think you will find one bulb that is 60w. Don't let them talk you into buying a low watt bulb just because it says "plant grow".

*Kristin*

They sell the grass here http://www.petshrimp.com/najasguadalupensis.html (this website makes me want shrimp) and they say most retailers don't sell it and you have to get it from someone else in the hobby. I've tried looking it up, and I guess the only downsides to it are that it breaks easily (but the broken pieces keep growing) and that I would have to be trimming it down if my fish don't eat it because it does grow fast. Doesn't do much for aquascaping, but I'm no good at that anyway. I just think it would be good because it can and will grow in just about any type water, even low salinity brackish water if I decide to stay with the mollies. Thanks for all the links, at least now I know what I'm going to need and some places I can get it.

It looks alright to me...kinda looks messy though. I can just imagine the trimming you would have to do. Seems a little too involved for me...but I'm not one that prunes their plants like I should.

If you upgrade your lighting, you could grow Pygmy Chain Sword (Echinodorus tennellus). It is more grassy looking and would make a nice foreground. When it gets growing good it will make nice clumps...perfect for fry.

Check out the latest picture of Little Fish's 29g log...E. tennellus is the plant in the front right (when looking at the picture). Very nice light green color. Doesn't get too out of control.
Clicky

*Kristin*

Yeah, I've seen it. I could never make a tank look beautiful and natural like that. I'd just rather have a few tall plants at the back and some of those bushy plants up front, I can shorten them as they grow. I haven't been able to find a place to buy driftwood, and I don't like the way rock looks so much in a tank, so I don't think I'll be decorating with anything other than plants. I was going to put some pictures of my other tank on ratemyfishtank or whatever that site is, then I looked at some of the tanks on there and I crawled back in my corner and promised myself never to take a picture of one of my fishtanks ever again. What goes in my fishtank is really limited to what the lfs and the big chain stores carry around here. Which is next to nothing, and Ir eally don't know what to order online. So I'm still looking things up. I just thought that plant was a weed, so, I can't kill a weed. It's impossible. It might survive. These days my cactus is looking ill.

Well, I got brave enough to check my water after I did that change a few days ago. Ammonia 0 (as always) Nitrite 5ppm (I have such trouble keeping that down) Nitrates 10ppm. At least it isn't at 10ppm nitrites and 40ppm nitrates anymore. So my tank must be close to being finished cycling. So roughly in about 2 weeks (I hope it's completely done by then *crosses fingers*) I'm going to be stocking my husband's tank. He has decided he wants an angelfish. So... would it be better to get the angelfish first, then the next week get the platies, or would it be better to get the platies first? In a 29g there are limited options, and I know adding an angelfish would cut them down a little more. Could I have 6 platies, an angel and maybe 4 or 5 cories? Then if I got algae in the future maybe 2 or 3 ottos? I'm not sure if I would like the way an angelfish and platies would look together in a tank. Are there any fish that would look better? I'm sure my husband could go without the platies, but he's in love with this particular angelfish at our lfs, so I paid for the fish and they are holding it for me until my tank is cycled and I'm ready, it's the only one they had and I didn't want to be running all over Jacksonville looking for another fish just like it. It's about 2 1/2 inches long (and tall) mostly white with a little orange on the very top of the head and top fin. I doubt we'll find anymore of the calico platies (which would have matched and gone very nicely with the angel he picked out) I have only seen them available at one petstore here and they only have a few left. I'd never seen them before in the local fish stores either. So my only option would be to buy online, but I'd rather get something I can see before I buy it. I'll try to look on google for an angelfish the same color as the one I bought. I know it isn't that important for the fish to match, but it would be nice. I want the fish to look good together.

Also, fate has intervened and made sure that I would be buying a new hood and light. When I lifted the lid to the hood yesterday it broke. I'm not sure if it was bumped or something and the cat jumped on it, but the lid is barely hanging on. I know the lid isn't exactly necessary but it's annoying to have the hinge slipping and it falling when I don't want it to. That's what I get for buying a cheap tank set up.

Ok, I got some pictues off google, so I'm not trying to take credit for these. The angelfish is colored like this.

These are the platies my husband likes, which I think would look nice and be close enough to the same colors not to clash, but also stand out as well from the spots.


Some of the platies of this color I saw had a light orange tail instead of the dark orange, and it was only the tail. I guess it's according to where I get them from. I also saw the biggest snail I've EVER seen. I'm not sure what kind it was, it had a gold shell, but I'm not sure if it's an apple snail or a mystery snail. I kind of want a big snail now, but a long time ago I had an outbreak of pest snails and ended up just throwing the whole tank, gravel and all away. Do the big snails breed like that? Even if there is only one of them?

I think that one angel and 6 platies would be fine...oh and about 6 cories. I just wouldn't add anything else that is mid-surface dwelling. You could add ottos if you have algae.

If you can moderately plant the tank (not quite heavily), the angel would appreciate it. When I got my first angel, my 55g wasn't planted much at all. She was very shy and startled easily. When i added alot more plants, she had places to hide when she got scared, and eventually she wasn't scared hardly at all. I think it makes her feel safer that she has somewhere to hide.

Angels get very tall. I think it will make your 29g look very small (just because they get big). But, if its what you both want, then get one. A 29g is the minimum for one...I just think it will make the tank look tiny.

And now that you can get a new light, you can get new plants! If your LFS doesn't have a good supply, there are many online plant stores out there. Here are a couple that I have used:
Aquatic Plant Depot
**not the greatest selection...but great prices. The cheapest I've seen. And their plants are good quality. Shipping is $10 to anywhere and you get 5% off on your first order.
Aquarium Plants
**better selection, a little bit higher prices. They recommend overnight shipping, which can be a little pricey, but I would only use it if you had a huge order (because they will refund for dead plants with overnight).

Some other places to check out are:
Freshwater Aquarium Plants
AZ Gardens
**I think their shipping is a little high.

I see you are in FL. Aquatic Plant Depot is located there, so shipping should be pretty fast. It usually only takes 2 days (after they ship it) to get to my house in AL. They go through the Post Office.

*Kristin*

Thanks for all those links. I plan on getting a very large tank when we move. I think the two 29g tanks will be enough to worry about. We're starting the process of buying a house, getting approved for loans and all that. It's just a matter of finding a house we both agree on. So after all that is done I want a very large tank that I know will be in the same place for a LONG time. This 29g would be a temporary, at the most a year, house for the angel. I hope we'll be in a new house by August, I can dream. I'm not sure how fast they grow though, and if being in the 29g would stunt it's growth. If the case becomes that it gets too big before that, I'll have to upgrade it to a bigger tank anyway.

This is the light I'm looking at. The 30" is 65W so just a tiny bit over 2w per gallon. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11418&N=2004+113345

If my husband has his way and gets his giant snail, my plants will be temporary until they get eaten and replaced. So, that lighting should be enough. I just don't know if it fixes itself above the tank or if I need a glass top.

I also don't know if I can use the glass canopy covers with a HOB filter. So, I think I would need a light suspended above the aquarium a little and I just wouldn't use a hood.

I think the angel will be fine until you move. 2 of my angels have been with me for about 4 months. They started off really small (like 3 inches long and 3 tall). Now, they are still small, but about 4 inches long and maybe 4-5 inches tall. They don't grow too terribly fast.

I'm not sure about that fixture. The good thing about the Coralife fixture I have is that you can buy legs for it. They suspend it above the tank about 3 inches or so. I still have a hood though, so the fish don't jump out. With the glass hoods I mentioned before, they have about a 2 inch gap in the back, just enough for a HOB. I have HOB filters on both of my tanks with the lighting fixtures. My 55g has the standard glass tops while my 29g has the Versa-top glass from Drs. F and S. It comes with a plastic strip you can put on the back. You can use that and cut a place for the filter if you want...but I just don't use the plastic. The gap isn't big enough for community fish to escape. I would only worry about that with an eel (which get too large for 29g anyways).

If you really want plants...I would forget the snail. While some don't eat plants (types of ramshorn snails), alot of them do. If you don't know what kind you're getting, you may not have any plants left. Tell your hubby that a planted tank looks so much better than any snail. Planted tanks are very nice.

More than likely you will have to sit that light fixture on something. If you want that particular fixture, then get the glass top too.

*Kristin*

Thank you so much for all your help. When I looked at the glass hoods I didn't know if the plastic strip came attatched or if I could opt not to put it on. Now to look up a few plants and order that light. I got that light I linked to and a twin tube versa top. It should be here by monday. With those two things, plus 2 day shipping it was $104. Not too bad. At least I didn't pay $200 for the light... but I wanted that one. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12109&N=2004+113345 If I'm going to pay that much for just a light though, I'd rather do it when I get my big tank and then I'll spend tons of money on it. I would have prefered the blue moon lights over the white one on the hood I bought, but I'll live. I also found a place in Florida that I can buy Cherry Shrimp. Which I think would be a good enough alternative to a snail for my husband. I'm afraid the angelfish would want to eat them though.

I found this site http://www.floridadriftwood.com/store.asp but I haven't compared their prices yet. But they're close enough most of what I order should come in a day or two and make it ok through shipping. I'm not going to order plants until my new light comes in though. They have some assortment kits. But I worry that they'll be too much for the one tank, and my other tank isn't planted. I could always put the extra in there, but that tank is enough of an oddball I don't want to make it worse with random extra plants. My husband picked the fish AND the gravel in my tank. I love my fish, but I'm trying to make sure his tank looks better than mine does. When we move, the fish will probably get put in the same big tank, so... I won't have to look at BLUE gravel anymore. I'm hoping the gravel from his tank, his plants, the decorations and the filters from both tanks will help cycle the new one I'm planning a lot faster. I've picked out several houses, but my husband finds a reason not to like them all. Then he picks out houses and I just want to slap him. I want a BIG house. I'm not moving from a little rental to a little house we have to make a payment on. Sorry, it's frustrating.

I ordered from Florida DW once. Plants were in good condition, shipping was reasonble, it was great. Then I ordered a second time. My order still had not shipped after 2 weeks. I tried to email to check on it and got no response. I tried to call and got no answer multiple times. There wasn't any voicemail so that I could leave a message. Finally I got frustrated and cancelled the order through an email, but never received a response to that either. I will never order from them again...bad service. I ordered plants though...have never ordered livestock from them. Still, their customer service should be a little better.

I would count on the angel eating the shrimp. Usually shrimp will get eaten by anything that can fit them in their mouths. Rams eat shrimp, so i believe a big angel would also. Some tetras will eat shrimp too, so really, if the tank isn't very heavily planted, the shrimp aren't safe.

$104 is not bad. I paid about $65 for mine, the one I linked to earlier. I don't need moonlights though...don't see the need for them.

*Kristin*

My ammonia is 0, nitrites 2ppm, nitrates 20ppm. Next week the tank will hopefully be cycled.

Thats great!

*Kristin*

My light and glass hood came in. But I haven't opened it, the box looks a bit long to me, I'll try it out when I get home.

They pack them in boxes bigger than the actual light...and the glass too. When I got the box my glass top was in I was sure it would be too long...but it fit perfectly! You will love the light fixture!

I can't remember, did you get the Coralife one? If so, you may want to get some legs for it. That will lift it off the top about 3 inches. The glass is there to keep the fish in.

The light fixture over my 29g grows some higher light plants that my 55g light (~2.4wpg) won't. Its strange! 29g tanks can be nicely aquascaped. Next you'll be buying more plants!

*Kristin*

It fit perfectly, I cut the plastic back piece into two pieces and trimmed them to fit around my filter. Easier than cutting a piece out of the strip. It looks great. The moon light is dim, but you can still see the silver mollies, it looks really cool in the dark. If I ever have kids, they're getting a fish tank for a night light... but not until they're old enough to understand that incense oil is NOT food. *twitches* I love kids... really. My ammonia is at .25ppms, so it's up a bit, but my nitrites are 0 and my nitrates are at 10ppms. So I figure I need a water change. I'll be doing a water change tonight, and another one sometime this week, to make sure the water isn't salty at all, then I'm donating my mollies and picking up the angelfish. My husband is EXTREMELY excited. He loves round fish for some reason. I'm looking up plants. I like everything that covers the bottom, but I'm not too interested in any tall plants. I might just buy a big bunch of different plants, see what goes and stick the rest into my already mix matched tank.

Oh, and I got this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11418& It's not a big brand I don't think, I've never heard of satellite. It's nice.

Well, it's been a long time since I've been online. I've been extra busy with work and all that, but I'm part time now so I have much more time on my hands.

The tank is going very nicely. The angelfish and 6 platies are getting along very well. My husband bought the snail, it ate the plants, and that was the end of that. So he took it back, but the tank still hasn't been replanted. I'll be working on that hopefully before the end of them month. I just have to change a bit more water to keep the nitrates down now. I have a little algae growing on the glass and I can't find ottos anywhere. None of the fish stores or pet shops have them.

Ottos are pretty scarce in my area too.

How about some pictures when you get it replanted?

*Kristin*

I'll definately post some pictures once it gets planted. Right now it's just a bare tank and fish. At least my husband won't want another snail.

I did a normal water change, like every other time. The water looked a bit cloudy after a few hours. Today... it's completely green. I can barely see my fish.

All is better this morning. I ran to Walmart about 10:30pm last night and bought some algae killer in a bottle, 42 drops later and my water is crystal clear this morning. My fish don't seem bothered at all, so I think it was worth the $5 for a bottle I can use over and over again. Blackout for 4 days was just not cutting it with me.

This is my husband's fish, that he probably loves more than me. There are some algae spots on the glass that haven't been cleaned yet, I was trying to leave a little for when I got algae eaters, but it seems like it'll be ages before I find any ottos so I may as well scrape it off today.

Attached Image:

Hi,
Here is a link for "Green Water." Follow the advice
and you can resolve the problem. By the way if you
have fry, green water is great first food for them.

http://www.otocinclus.com/articles/greenwater.html

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I put in one dose of some algae killer, and the next morning my water went from green that i couldn't see through to clear, and it said dose up to three days if it comes back, but it didn't come back. I bought some plants today, finally, so I can replant the tank. I didn't get algae until my husband bought a snail and it ate all my plants, lol. Some of the plants I bought today have the little pest snails on them, so I'm going to the fish store I normally go to for help on how to kill them before I plant the plants they're on.

If you can find some potassium permagate (sp?) you can dip the new plants into that before putting them in the tank. I don't know where to find that though.

Another option is a 1 part bleach to 19 parts water dip. I wouldn't leave them in very long though...maybe 5-10 seconds. I'd look for the potassium stuff first.

*Kristin*

Well, I found out what I feared was true. I asked the guy at this petstore we went to in jacksonville (I've never been there before) what kind of plants they were and all he could give me was the common name. But I got home and as I suspected, both types of plants my husband picked out will die eventually submerged. So, I'm throwing them out and starting over. It's starting to be a big waste of money to let him pick anything out. I know it's his fish tank... but still.

I know you were looking at shrimp but do not add any shrimp to an angel fish tank. Snails also wouldn't be a good idea. Angels love to pick on inverts and will bite off bits of the snail and shrimps bodies until they eventually die. They also will nip at pest snails which aren't entirely bad. The little snails will help clean up the tank and stir the substrate but if you don't squish some occasionally or if you feed the tank too much the snails can take over. There are tons of colorful shrimp and helpful snails that will clean the tank without eating the plants but you have to be very careful of tankmates as many fish include such inverts in their natural diet.

If you don't have a bottom feeder yet and can't stand the small snails you could add some small loaches. I have 4 yoyos in my 29g and they've lived there for probably around 5years now quite happily. They don't look cramped at all and did share their tank with 1 angel, 4 platies, a betta and a bristlenose but for some reason the platies died after several months. I also moved the angel to a bigger tank after 2years and he's not stunted at all. Just started to look quite big in that tank. Yoyos were some of my first fish and went through alot while I was learning without losing a single one. They also definitely don't mind the really hard water with over 8.0 ph that came out of our well.

For plants try to find some crypts. Wendtii are usually fairly common and hardy. It's about the only thing I can find at most LFS around here. Crypts don't mind low light, are slower growing so they won't run out of nutrients like the swords did, and withstand nibbling fish pretty well. Only thing with crypts is that you have to rinse their roots very well if you move them around. Otherwise they may get crypt rot which causes all the leaves to die. Quite often they'll survive crypt rot and you should never throw away one that still has a healthy root system but rinsing usually avoids the problem completely. Anubias might also be a good one but should be planted on decorations like rocks or driftwood not in the substrate. I'm not sure how much light you have on now but crinums(water onions) might also be a good choice for a taller background plant. They withstand moderate amounts of light and grow long leaves sort of like thick grass blades. They've also never required much maintenance on my part. Personally I'd stay away from the larger sword plants unless you want to trim it frequently and dose fertilizers. My amazon swords are always the first ones to show nutrients deficiencies and have outgrown a 55g before. I had one taking up about 1/3rd of the tank before I sold it and replanted the babies in my 90g.

Wow. I'm still shopping for the plants. I'm so reluctant to buy any plant that has the small snails on them because I had an outbreak of pest snails when I was in high school and had to start completely over with the tank. I hate snails. I'm afraid even if I dip them, one might live and repopulate, lol. I'm paranoid about snails. I know a few places in Jacksonville I can get good plants, but I haven't gotten the chance to go there yet. Thanks for all the advice.

I finally found a pet store that sells ottos. It's in Jacksonville, but I bought them and got them in the tank, and they seem happy. They really stick together though. I also bought a sword plant (I know, I'll have to fertilize it) and some micro swords. It's the only plants they had that weren't suffering from a nutrient loss, and also, it's the only pet store that didn't have a snail problem. But the plants look like they're doing fine today. I know it'll take longer than a day to know if they're going to hang in there or not. But I'm hopeful.

Hi

I wouldn't worry too much about those baby pest snails that show up on the plants. The angel should eat them up with enthusiasim. When I set up my 55 gallon, I bought plants and quarantined them in a 5 gallon bucket with dechlorinated water for 2-3 days (changing the water wvery day). Most of the snails crawled off by that time. I did have a small outbreak of about 15-25 baby snails, but when I moved my angel from the 20 gallon to the 55, she ate all of them within half an hour.

Good Luck!

- Meow -