FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I have a 55g cichlid tank that I've started. In it are a 3" eartheater, 3" bristlenose pleco and four 2" german blue Rams....and...(sorry guys), two 3.5" Bala Sharks that I bought before getting the word about them.

In testing the water lately, I notice everything fine, except moderate Nitrate level (not dangerously, but in the "upper end" of the Safe Zone. So, I did a 1/5 water change (had been a week since last 1/5th change). I have been told that Blue Rams don't like large water changes....so have been sticking with about 1/5th weekly.

But when I retested the water the next day...the nitrate level was near identical....SO, in a few days, I decided to "risk it" and did a 1/2 water change.

Again....Very, Very little nitrate lowering showed!

What can be causing this with so few small fish and weekly changes...last one of 50%???
----------------------------------------

Hi,
Nitrate is the end product of waste decay. It's the end
product of the Nitrogen Cycle. If your substrate (gravel)
is too large in size, larger than #3 grain size then there
are gaps large enough for waste and old food to lodge and
decay.
I've never kept rams, so someone who has may be able to
better address that situation. However, 1/5 a week,
especially without vacuuming the gravel, will not resolve
the situation. You should be doing 10-20% of the tank
weekly along with vacuuming a section (divide the non
planted parts of the tank into quarters) with each water
change. Also, check your foods, some will contribute
to your nitrate problem, besides and decaying products.

Lastly check your tap water for a nitrate reading after
it has sat for 24 hours after drawing it.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

OK Frank,
(1/5th water change is 20% BTW))

Please tell me what size is a #3 grain gravel size, please.

(I checked the tank 24 hrs after changing it, but do you mean a sample of tap water in a glass left for 24 hrs?)

I wonder if waste material is staying in my powerfilter filter elements...even though I rince/rub/flush-clean them every other week...and replace them every 4 months with new ones??

My substrate is small black gravel mixed with Carib Sea Black Tahitian Moon Sand (about 1/2" each)which I and the eartheater stir up relatively frequently to dislodge any "junk".
--------------------------------------------------
Again, what diameter is #3 grain, please?

1/2 incj gravel will have enough space between it to trap the Wastes.
However the sand should fill the gaps to stop that from happening. I can only think of one thing that would cause it. If you didn't wash the large gravel before you added the sand then the wastes could have been trapped in there between the larger gravel and sand. Did you replace all of the gravel in the tank or just add the sand into the old?

Thats all I can think of.

mts.gif" border="0"> I vote do you?
My Tanks at Photobucket

Thanks, Fish KeeperJim
No, I washed, rinsed and rewashed/rinsed the sand about 15 times until NO cloudiness or particles where evident in the wash water....and then washed again.

(Did I mention that I only feed the fish what they can eat in about 20 minutes about every other (sometimes 3rd) day?....that also makes me not understand this ammonia/nitrate issue).

The food I feed them is TetraColor for my community tank(with 3/4 inch, pretty fine gravel substrate...which also is acting the same way with nitrate levels after 50% water changes)....and TetraCichlid for the cichlid tank. And sometimes TopFin sinking Shrimp pellets (or Hikari Cichlid Gold).

I'll keep doing the water changes, testing the tap water, and see if things improve. IF it doesn't drop noticably, I'll begin to suspect my filter elements need more frequent replacement.
--------------------------------------------------------

"I rince/rub/flush-clean them every other week...and replace them every 4 months with new ones??"
Lets address that issue. I too used to replace my filter media, that was before I found FP and learned about the cycling process!
Since then I've never actually replaced my filter media (except in the case of carbon when used).
When you 'rinse/rub/flush' them, do you use the tank water and alternate which ones you're cleaning? The way you wrote that it makes it sound as if you get out a high powered hose and blast them to bits! Just gently swoosh them through the tank water you siphoned off doing one with each water change. That way you don't lose all your precious bacteria that you spend time trying to grow!

Don't count on tankmates to do your work for you, you should still be using a siphon to get down to the very bottom of the tank, you should hold the siphon against the bottom glass till the water coming up the tube is clear. Then move on to the next section.

I've seen tanks with high nitrates, it was one I bought used from some guy in the paper. The water that came up from his gravel was so black it wasn't even funny. He'd never seen a siphon and I was amazed that the fish survived the 90ppm nitrate levels that were there (after doing a nearly 90% water change).

Not sure how earth eaters are in planted tanks, but I'd say look to get some surface floating plants in to help eat up excess nitrates .

Also important to address, what filter do you have on the tank? If the water isn't moving enough then you're not getting proper filtration and all sorts of things can end up going wonky.

^_^

Thank you, Babelfish
I use two Marineland Emperor 400 Dual Bio-Wheel filters running at the same time continuously...so in each of my 55g tanks, the water turnover is about total every 7 minutes or so in both.

(my nitrite level has always been good since the tanks cycled completely...months ago. And continue to be extremely low...even though this nitrate thing persists even with frequent water changes!!?)

I have only artifitial plants in the tank (lots of them for hiding spots). The reason I don't use a syphon currently, and use my hand to stir up and loosen any "gunk"...which always is very very minimal (and let the power filters remove it), is because half my substrate is Tahitian Moon black sand(about 1/2" deep)with 1/2" of small black gravel mixed in. The sand will slip thru the slits in my syphon head.

I rinse/rub/scrub...and rinse the blue fiber covered charcoal filter inserts with fast running tap water from my house system that is water softened (so no chlorine involved). I believe the fiber covers on the filter elements are mainly to catch loating particles(I didn't mean to sound like I used high pressure spray on them, just fast tap water.. There also could be some beneficial microbes inside them, but the maim microbial action is done by the 4 Bio-Wheels. Is that not right?

I'll do another substrate stir, and wait for the 800 gallon per hour filters to remove any dislodged material....the do another 50% water change after cleaning the filter elements of anything caught it them tomorrow, or tonight. And then give a nitrate report Sunday...or Monday, OK?

I appreciate your advice, Babelfish...and all others too, thanks!

The floating plant is an interesting idea. I'll look into that.
Do Floating Plants stay alive? Don't they need to be rooted in substrate?

Quick comment on the plants.

Duckweed has roots that just hang down a bit into the water, but with your water turnover it might not be so good.

hornwort does great floating, in fact it doesn't root at all really. However, again with the water turnover you may likely shred it to bits.

No chlorine is ok then, so you're fine with that...and with the sand I can understand the lack of siphoning.

^_^