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Hello Eveybody,
I haven't posted in a long time here however I'm checking this great forum in frequent basis.

I'm opening this post because I want to share with you some issues with the PH in my tanks. To behonest the issue is not that bad due to all my fish are now used to my water.

So the "problem" is that PH is going over 7.6 (I would say between 7.6 and 7.8), it comes from my tap with a PH of 7.0. Not sure why PH is raising. There is no limestones or anything in the tanks that can affect GH nor KH. Currently I have a 50G with a couple of medium sized angels, 6 black widows and 6 Peppered Corys. The other one (29g)is with 1 Bolivian RAM (My gem, he is 6 year old now) and 1 Black neo (yes just 1 ) you will be wondering why I just have 1 neon?? well I haven't find anymore black neons for a year or so. He is the last survivor of a shoal of 11 neons that I bought like 4-5 years ago, they spawned and this is the only fry who made it and of course the rest are already gone (about 1.5 years ago).

Now my problem with the corys is that I'm not able to make them survive for more than 2-3 weeks. it looks like they never get used to my water. This is the 3rd time I'll try with cories and hopefully I will be able to make it.

My plan here is I'll star measuring my tanks every other day. PH, GH and KH. Then I'll do the same with my tap water. I'll store some add some aconditioner and store it for measure it and compare the results in 2 weeks.

Any feedback will be trully appreciated.

Regards,
Hector

Are there any decorations or rocks in your tank that can cause it? Do all your tanks expierience the same rise in PH?

You can try adding peat moss to your filter which will lower the PH for now till you can find the cause

http://www.fishprofiles.com/site/aquarank.aspx

I am not sure why your water hardness is raising. I assume that you are doing water changes and not just toping off the water. Toping off the water and not doing water changes would be a reason why the hardness could raise. You said that you dont have any calcerous rocks. What kind of substrate are you using? What additives are you supplementing in your aquarium? You could always use peat to soften the water or reverse osmosis water. Before that, we need to get to the source of the problem. Dont worry, better days are coming We will figure this out. Welcome back also.

Thanks BM,
There are no decorations or rock that can cause it. In fact, when I found about this issue I made the "vinegar" test to my gravel and a couple of rocks and I found nothing on those tests. Both tanks are somehow planted (Vallisneria, Elodea, some crypts and Java moss).

About the Pet moss. I really don;t like to play with the water chemistry, specially when you are talking about decreasing the PH and as I said my Angels and black widows are doing pretty good. They have been with me for over 1 year now.

Clownloach,
Of course I'm doing partial water changes usually every other week and I keep this schedule cause my tanks are really not crowded, my nitrates never goes up over 20 ppm. For additives I'm using one manufactured in Mexico, it's called "Neutra Stress" I've been using this one for years with good results, note: this problem started when I moved 1 year ago, by the time I only had the 29g so I bought the 50g.
I'm really not that worried abot this problem as I mentioned my older fish are used to it, and besides it they are in very good shape. I'm only suffering with Cory's I've tried to add 3 different shoals of them with no positive results.

One of the things that realyy caught my impression is even if the PH raise to those levels, GH and KH measurements don't I can;t recall the ppm but it was on the "soft" side of the chart. So it's weird, even I thought my PH kit was wrong (I'm using Hagen) and went to buy a Tetra one with the same results...... weird

Let's start measuring it and let's see if we can figure it out what's going on.

Cheers!

You state

PH in my tanks

by that are we to assume that it is in all of your tanks? If so it is either the water from your supply (when did you check this last) also do several checks during the day and see if it alters. If it is the supply your LFS should be experiencing the same problem contact them and check.

Now if is an introduced problem but not water introduced exactly what is going into the tanks again if it is in all tanks what is the common thread.

Finally get your water checked by your LFS just in case your measuring equipment is not accurate enough.

Keep supplying us with updated info as this is the only way to solve the problem.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Hello Keithgh,
Yes this is happening in both of my tanks.

Unfortunately our LFS's don;t have too much knowledge or expertise, in most places in the world probably there is a lack of knowledgeable personnel. I discussed thsi with the most "trusted" LFS and they really couldn't help.

As I mentioned I'm using Hagen test kits, have any of you tried this brand? I took a sample for PH testing with the same results (But this LFS is using Hagen's as well).


Thanks for your replies

Here we go, Source means the water source, And PH tetra are the results with a Tetra test kit, rest of the results are with Hagen test kits.

Day 1, Nov the 8th results:

Source, PH, PH Tetra, GH, KH,
29g, 8, 8, 100mg/l, 50mg/l,
50g, 8, 8, 80mg/l, 50mg/l,
Tap, 7.6, 7.5, 60mg/l, 40mg/l,

I´m planing my next water change on Sunday......

If it is not the source it must be something to do with the tanks.
Now here comes the work list every thing that is common to both tanks. Substrate type, rocks, ornaments if any, feeding foods and extras, any water supplements used, and any thing you can think of.

Finally a photo of each tank.
It is going to be a process of elimination.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

In the 29 g tank I would change water only once a month, you have only 2 small fish in there, that's almost nothing.
Are your tanks planted? Do they have air pumps, especially working over night? If they are planted, I would add some CO2 (not the one in sollutions, the gas).
You can also add big quantities of driftwood, and indeed peat, use black water extract or oak leaves extract.
But if your PH ius rising slowly, between water changes, it is indeed very starnge and or:
1) you add something to your tank, which is weird. The food can't be so alcaline, normally it raises the acidity if it remains rotting in the tank.
2) there is a chemical reaction going on and the only thing that comes now to my mind is the CO2

Hi Hector,
Before we all get grabbing straws, what are the readings
for your tap water?
I know you list it as 7.6 but I'm curious if you just
ran the water into a clean glass and then tested it, or
if you let some dribble out into the test vial, or if
you let the glass of water sit for 24 hours and then
tested it.

When trying to test your source, you should run it for
a few minutes, then catch some in a clean glass, then turn
off the water, set the glass out for 24 hours and then
test it. This allows the water to degas and settle out.
By the way, keep the glass of water where no one, including
family, cats, or dogs don't help themselves to some.
They will "contaminate" the test.

It might also help to know where in Mexico you are located.
Some places in Mexico draw their water from carbonate
aquifers while others use nearby streams or lakes.
Have you checked with your water company to know what
they put in the water to process it?

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

keithgh:
Common in both tanks: Only substrate. I'm using the same one, this was one of my first thoughts, And i did the vinegar test on it and it was negative. also I'm using a pretty common substrate (no limestone or related). I'll try to post some pictures tonight or tomorrow morning.

Gaia:
Yes, both tanks are somehow planted, (not that heavily), just some elodea, Vallisneria and Java moss. In the 50g there is a pump woring all day and night and there is a piece of driftwood in each tank. I'm feeding using Tetramin.
No CO2 added. I think it's not needed my tanks really are not heavily planted.

Frank:
I'm using a couple of 5g water containers in my water changes. The day before yesterday I filled out 1 of those with some tap water and added some aditive as well. So basically the tested tap water had 24 hours in the recepient. BTW I'm located in SLP and not sure what our water company adds to the water

Hi,
What has us all scratching our heads is that your tanks
seem to be going in the opposite of normal direction.
Your GH/KH reading of 80-100ppm (4-6 Degrees hardness)
is good for the majority of the tropical fish that we
keep.

The odd part is that as a tank ages, the organic waste
products break down forming organic acids and the pH
would normally drop toward the acidic side of 7.0.

With the carbonate hardness (KH) that you have,
The carbonate is buffering that tendency.
Your tank is going up which is odd.
I'd have thought that the buffering would
easily maintain the 7.6 pH and you would see no change.
Instead the buffering is causing the pH to increase.
Normally with water that is high in carbonate and general
hardness, the pH will be at the high end of the 7s or
even in the 8s.

Are you sure that you used a quartz based substrate,
and have no rocks in the tank? It's either that, or one
of the additives the company is using has a carbonate
molecule and that is increasing the pH as the water ages.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank,
I think I found the problem. And everything starts with my water changes

Let me describe you my water change procedure:
First I start cleaning and removing the water in both of my tanks, you know gravel cleaning, etc.... after cleaning I fill out 2 5g containers and I use adding the aditive at this point. Of course the water coming form the tap is cold. So after adding the additive I fill out a small pot with this water and it goes to the stove for warming it up. Then I mix this warm water with the one in the containers (matching the tank and new water temp) and start filling up both tanks again. So nothing unusual right?

Well today I made this test, I placed the remainng tap water (form the tests) into this pot, went to the stove and boiled it as I usually do. I waited for it to cool down and test it... guess what yup, PH over 8 with both PH test kits. So it looks like there is something in the pot that make PH to goes up

First question, how do you warm your water for water changes?? I have a couple of 100w heaters that I'm planning to use for this purpose but not sure how long it is going to take.

Anyways I'll stick with the testing for thsi 2 weeks and I'll be doing some water changes to slowly bring down the PH. This thisng was driving me nuts and I focused all my attention in the things inside the tank.

Thanks everybody for your replies and I'll keep posting in this post for updating you how is it going...

Cheers
Hector

I was starting to think it could be your additives. Exactly what are they and how much?

I have always warmed my water. I store the water for a week in 15Lt water containers. I place them in a laundry trough of hot water and just rotate them until they are all warm. During the colder months as they warm up I place them in front of a gas wall heater.

Frank might be able to answer this concern.
Could it be some thing from the sauce pan (type of metal) just a wild guess.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Hi,
Well, I'm glad that you think you found the problem.
At first blush, I have no idea why its happening.

As for warming my refill water, I use the Python brand
water siphon. After draining my tank down the number
of gallons I want (I have the back right corner marked
with a black felt tip pen at 1 gallon intervals) and then
turn the shut off valve, walk back to the sink and adjust
the kitchen sink valve for the desired temperature
(one faucet adjusts both the hot and cold water. Then
I switch the siphon valve from drain to fill, walk back to
the tank, add the right amount of water conditioner for the
amount of water drained off, and then open the shutoff
valve and fill the tank. Been doing this for 14 years now
and have yet to loose a fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I want one of those. Sounds like your water changes are a piece of cake.

Talking about this. I'll start with 20% water changes twice per week. I will keep measuring it and I'll keep you posted about it.

I have been with this for over a year, until now that I started thinking about it again, it made sense to me. As you were, I was paying all my attention inside the tank

i might be off on this but isnt it true older tanks go more alkaline over time ? i have heard of that before where a tank with no PH altering objects has had ph incresses of around .5 - 1. ph. anyone else experienced this ?

1-Ancistrus triradiatus 4-Gymnocorymbus ternetzi 2-Danio frankei
2-Danio rerio 2-Danio Starfire 2-Chromobotia macracanthus 2-Erpetoichthys calabaricus 4-Ampullariidae 1-Mastacembelus erythrotaenia

Hi,
This is an example of what can happen if the tank
maintenance is ignored. It's calle Old Tank Syndrome (OTS)
and the symptoms are a decreasing pH (more and more acidic)
along with a very high Nitrate reading.

Tanks shift toward the more acidic as the organic acids
accumulate.

http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hello,
I mada a 25% water change on Saturday. PH readings after that came down from 8 to 7.8 in boht tanks. I don't want to stress the fish too much so next water change will be on FRiday/Saturday GH and KH didn't change.... I'll try to post the promised pics this week. I'll keep you posted

Hi everyone,
Another water changed was performed yesterday(only 20%). I will test today and I'll let you know.

BTW I took some pics of the tanks and I just realized how bad photographer I am. At least I think there is a good pic of mu Bolivian Ram.... I'll post it later