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Robyn,

I know nothing about the UV, so straight on to the Oto. Looks really well fed to me

Have a look at my latest 125G Weekly update, there is a really really fat Oto. What a coincidence!

I also believe that, on average, the females are "fatter" than the males. This may be the only way to visually distinguish between the genders, but it is just my theory so far as I have not dug into it any further.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

based on my own experiences with Otos, yours look just fine and healthy to me

About the UV pump, I'd get a large aquaclear sponge and cut a hole in it slightly smaller than the pump, then jam the pump in there.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi,
I would agree with Matt about a possible way to prefilter
the water entering the pump. From what you have told us
about the UV filter that you have purchased, it sounds like
a "disposable filter." If you cannot clean it and it does
not give you instructions on how to change out the bulb,
then it sounds like after a year you should toss it. That,
is expensive. First, I would contact the manufacturer and
question them about what you have read either here or
elsewhere on the internet about cleaning the bulbs and
changing them them regularly after a period of time. I'd
say that I'd been told that the bulbs need to be changed
every 6 months to a year. Ask them how you are supposed
to accomplish it. Then, depending upon their response, I
would either put it back in the box and return it, unused,
or put it into service.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I can't say I've ever heard of a disposable UV filter. I'm sure there's gotta be a way to disassemble the unit to replace the bulb and clean the crystal sleeve. If there isn't I'd for sure return that sucker, but I doubt that's the case. Even some of the cheapest models I know of have replaceable bulbs and sleeves.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi,
I used the term "disposable" rather loosely in that many
are housed in a opaque plastic housing and the only way
into them is to cut the plastic cylinder apart and then
figure out a way to reseal it. Essentially it is a
buy it, use it, throw it away unit, that was not meant
to come apart for maintenance.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Definitely not a disposable one, considered one of the better units for sale here in Aus. The unit itself was just over AU$370, plus the tubing, plus the pump. Instructions are there for changing the bulb & a set number of running hours is quoted. Removal of the bulb involve getting out your screwdriver etc. For cleaning, it is said that is not necessary - only monthly pumping clean water through it, or possibly water with vinegar. I would assume at bulb changing time, a more thorough cleaning could be done at that time. Because I spent extra $$ & got an electronic one, for some reason that means my globe runs for longer hours before requiring replacement than a non electronic one.

So do you all think it should be pulled apart monthly for more thorough cleaning, although the instructions say that's not required?

Thanks for replies.

Cheers
TW

Because I spent extra $$ & got an electronic one, for some reason that means my globe runs for longer hours before requiring replacement than a non electronic one.

This is referring to the ballast for lighting the bulb. Electronic ballasts fire(light) the bulb more efficiently than thier magnetic counterparts. This leads to longer bulb life and more efficient use of electricity not to mention longer ballast life.

I held out some cash for a super nice electronic ballast(Ice Cap 660) on my new T5HO reef lights as well. Glad I did.

Oh yeah...yes your UV sterilizer should probably be cleaned out more frequently than the 6-10 months your bulb lasts. You can try doing things thier recommended way for a few months then take it apart and see how clean/dirty it is.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

based on my own experiences with Otos, yours look just fine and healthy to me

Thanks Dr Bonke. Sorry I didn't acknowledge your post earlier. Thanks for popping in.

Matty & Frank, I still haven't set it up yet (UV) - partly 'cause I have to search for a sponge that will fit the pump inside it & partly because because when I checked my bag of goodies, the adaptor I needed to make the hose that fits the UV also fit the pump wasn't in the bag. That was ok, 'cause I checked the receipt & I hadn't been charged - but I now have to go back & get one at some stage.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Hm, not much I can say, except that I am still following your log. I have no experience with any of this stuff, but I hope that you have a chance to get the missing piece soon and you are able to plug it in.

What did the hubby say to the UV purchase anyway?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Shhhh No knowledge of it yet. Not yet sure how to handle that one.

Ps - I will delete this reply shortly

Cheers
TW

Just say it cost less than it did...always works for me. I mean what are you talking about LF...Robyn didn't buy anything. *shoos away nosey husbands*

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

This tank continues to have an algae problem. Maybe I will reduce the lighting by one hour a day & see if that has any effects. The swords have a greenish hair algae & the anubia have little black tuffs.

It can't possibly be due to over feeding, as mainly I leave the otos to find their own food. Maybe it is this ADA soil, could it be too rich? The other ADA tank doesn't suffer this way though.

I'm surprised how 2 little otos can make so much mess in the tank. Even though they are the only residents, there is still debris when I vacuum.

For the time being, I have given up on the UV filter in this tank, even though all has been purchased. The darn built in hood just doesn't allow the required pipes to make it in & out of the tank. I will put the UV away until if ever I convert the tank to a cannister filter, remove the hood & replace the top with glass that can be cut to fit the tubes. I'd then get a PC light for the top.

I might order a cheapy UV, that is an internal UV, that comes with it's own built-in pump. I'm currently trialling this on the 20G & if I see any difference in water clarity, I might get one for this tank. Even though it is a little ugly in the tank - it is nowhere near as obtrusive as the pump was, once it was enclosed in a sponge. That was just ugly, as the only sponge I could find big enough was blue.

I have found a use for the pump that was to run the UV. Instead, I submerse it in my wheely water container & it pumps the clean water into my tank - much easier than pouring it in jug by jug, as was my previous method.

Cheers
TW

Well, it has been just over 5 weeks since the apisto deaths in this tank. During the interim, I twice treated the tank with worm killing meds, so I hope everything will be okay. Some days back I bought 2 standard kribs. During all the time since my apistos died, I have not really seen any more apistos around that I thought worth buying. In the LFS, the female was already wearing her breeding dress - so I brought them home & added them to the tank. Since then, I was regretting the purchase, as they retreated to the back of the tank & I never saw them. I knew they were alive, as I caught "glimpses", but no more than that. Anyway, out come both adult fish today, herding their considerable batch of fry with them. Their fry are larger than apisto fry were on the first day out. They already seem active, pecking at the substrate & such. In case any are interested, & if not for my own records, these fry seem to behave differently from the apisto fry - they occasional peck at their parents - is that affection or do they get some sort of sustenance through doing this? A further difference, when the apisots had their fry, only mum was actually with the fry. Dad never attempted to eat them, but he was at a distance, guarding the perimeter. He chased away an oto that got close, but he didn't actually get up close & personal with his fry.

These Kribs are acting as a team, and both of them are staying with the fry. Neither appear to be fry eaters, which is good. The following pictures are the usual blurry mess, but I hope you can see the fry being given care by both parents.

I hastily set up my 2 BBS hatchers & luckily was abile to pick up a batch of BBS to keep me going until mine hatch.

Try to look at the females tail fin, if you can.

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Cheers
TW

another of both parents with their fry



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Cheers
TW

There are more bad pictures on the previous page

Last one, It was really hard to get a pic of the mum from the right angle to show the tail. If you look carefully & you think it is just a trick of the light that her tail appears chopped off - it is no trick. It almost looks like it has been cut off neatly with a knife. The mail & female seem to get on perfectly well right now, but their love play may have been a little rough. I can only guess that he bit her tail off - but how is it that it is such a neat & tidy cut. Also, as she was in full breeding dress, why did he even need to. Surely the breeding dress meant that she was willing & able. I hope it will be ok for the fry that I added some melafix & prefix to the tank to help her heal & help prevent any infection setting in.

Here's another apisto & krib childing rearing difference. When I went in close to the apisto fry with an eye dropper full of BBS - mum backed off. She remained within watching distance, but she did not attempt to stay with her fry to defend them from the eye dropper. These kribs do not move, they say with fry as I squirt the BBS in & they quickly realised that a yummy snack was being delivered

Anyway, that's all for now.

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Cheers
TW

How nice, you soon will have a tank full of Kribs

I guess their negative attribute (aggression) is also their positive attribute (parental care). The "cut off" tail is quite amazing, I wonder what happened there. This must be some aggressive mating process.

Eating off the mother: I know that for example Discus do that as the slime contains nutrition for the fry. But it is unknown to me if the same accounts for Kribs.

Keep us posted,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi LF, yes I will keep you posted.

I guess their negative attribute (aggression) is also their positive attribute (parental care)

They may have more chance to show their negative attribute (aggression) in a community tank, but in this tank not a real need. They share with 2 otos who occasionally get too close for the parents liking, but they are chased away with no more aggression than the apistos did. They don't seem to be going over the top & the 2 species (so far) co-habit peacefully.

BTW, fry not only eat off the mother - but off the father too.

Here is a shot of the mum that maybe shows the sliced off tail more clearly. It is the neatness of the cut that amazes me most.

Do you think melafix & pimafix would hurt the fry? Maybe I should ask this in the hospital forum.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yes, the straight line in which the tail was separated is very amazing, I have no idea how this can be done.

Thoughts:

- I would assume that male bites would create more curved marks, so that doesn't sound likely
- What if the fry ate it? Loads of little bites could eventually end up looking like a straight line. And they only eat away on the softer tissue of the tail itself, which in turn doesn't bother the mother too much as it will grow back. Sounds reasonable, but is just a thought and not based on ANY knowledge.

I would not treat the tank until I see signs of infection or distress in the fish. I would say it would be more important to first go and try to find out why the tail is missing. If it should be something that frequently happens during breeding then I would not worry too much.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF, then maybe it is more a question for the cichlid forum - I will try there too. Anyway, here is the best shot of the male I have managed so far, naturally with fry surrounding him. The ones on the gravel don't really show up, but you can see a few who have risen above the gravel. He is watching them while mum has a 30 second break pecking at the gravel a few inches further to the left.

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Cheers
TW

Congrats on the fry robyn. I'd say if you want to treat the female it would be best to take her out, but melafix and pimafix are usually pretty mild. I'd ask around a little more though on it's use with fry.

That's one nice looking fish in the last pic

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Is her tail getting any worse, meaning in condition and size?

Are the fry still picking on the parents? Can you see them eat the food that you provide?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Matty & LF

Thanks for the fish compliment matty. Yes they are both pretty, but usually my camera isn't picking that up - only showing a pair of dark fish. That was my best shot.

The female & the male are doing too good a job looking after their fry to remove her. Her tail is no worse, it is not red, swollen or anything unusual - only that it is gone. I will hold off treatment, as she seems to be not bothered by it's loss one bit.

The fry either peck or nudge against the body's of their parents - I haven't seen them peck the tails, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

I am certain these fry are eating the BBS that I give them, or at least they attempt to. It's possible the BBS are still too big, but they are definitely trying to eat them. They are definitely pecking at the gravel, driftwood for any food found there too. They are very active in that way, far more so than the apistos.

Cheers
TW

Firstly, here is a shot of a new plant purchased on the weekend. It's the light green one just behind the anubia. LFS did write down the name for me, but it's in the car & I'm too lazy to go get it.

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Cheers
TW

Same plant from a wider shot. While I don't recall the name, LFS did say that it would not grow too high & would stay wide & bushy - so I'm hoping that will be so. BTW, those aren't the fry you see. That's air bubbles from tonight's water change.

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Cheers
TW

Something happened last Wednesday night between the krib parents. The previously happy couple, who worked as a perfect parenting team had some sort of disagreement & the fighting commenced. Dad decided mum was no longer allowed to go near the fry. Dad still guarded the fry, but it seemed that the most important task to him was to keep mum away. He was clearly frightening the fry, as he swooshed away to attack mum. The usually active fry hugged the gravel & were staying pretty still. By Thursday night, the female was looking very tired & stressed by the separation from her fry. Wherever dad & fry were in the tank, she was hovering directly above, at the top water level looking down, but if she made any attempt to to join them, the attack was on. I put dad in a breeding net in the same tank & plan A was to put him back 24hrs later & see if the separation was enough to calm things down. Mum went back to guarding the fry & the fry returned to being active & seemed much less stressed.

Then I wondered if a 24hr separation may make dad forget his bond with the fry & snack on them. I asked this question in cichlid forum, but no-one really seemed able to answer this. So, for the moment dad is in a small tank - not sure of size, but it would be no more than 10 or 12 litres I think. Both of my other tanks each contain a male Nigerian red - & I thought that would mean trouble if I put them together. He seems lonely in there, but I'm not sure if I should try rejoining him with his family or not. I really don't want to loose the fry. It is now 10 days since I first saw them & they are doing so well.

Mum's tail is repairing, although it is still not fully back, it is at least someway towards being renewed. Mum is also the fussier eater of the pair. Dad will accept pellets, but mum has so far rejected pellets. She enjoys the BBS as much the fry do.

Anyway, here is a pic of the fry. This was taken last week, when mum & dad were still good buddies.

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Cheers
TW

Hanging out with mum, near the BBS hatchery

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Cheers
TW

Once again, with mum & dad before war broke out.

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Cheers
TW

They may seem on their own, but mum was just out of shot & watching closely

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Cheers
TW

See, she is there after all.

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Cheers
TW

The previous shots of the fry were from last week. Here is a shot of the fry taken a few minutes ago. You can see that mum's tail is growing back in. Particularly if you can be bothered scrolling back quite a few posts when the injury was fresh. It is looking much better now.

Pls ingnore the purple hue. That sometimes happens with my shots, if there isn't enough light for shot.

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Cheers
TW

I hope this shows how much they've grown. They are also much pinker than a week ago (even taking away the purple hue of my shots tonight, in real life they are a mix of orange/brown/pink sort of colour.

Anyhow, that's enough krib fry for tonight.

Edit: Last comment for tonight. Does anyone think it safe to return dad to the tank. He has been separated from his fry for one week now. What do you think?

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Cheers
TW

First of all, I guess what is true for people is even more true for Kribs, they grow up way too fast

Looking good there Robyn. You seem to be able to have a huge batch grow up and then ... Well - Yes - What Then?

I have no idea about the male and what he did and why he did it, neither do I know if it is safe to add him back, sorry.

And I don't know what plant this is either, but I think I have seen it before.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I found the name of the new plant - corymbosa. It is not doing so well and is gradually losing it's leaves - one by one. Not that many left now, although the remain green while on the plant. It guess it might be it is losing it's submersed leaves & will grow the submersed (or is it the other way round?). If LFS told me the truth, that can't be right though. I wanted a small bushy plant that won't grow tall & he said it had been in his tank already more than several months. I hope it isn't just plain old dying.

The fry are over 5 weeks old now & all goes very well for them. So far, mum is not chasing them away (as I was told she might). If anything, it is the fry who think they don't need mum all the time & sometimes separate into small sub groups. Mum though, if she had her way, would have them all together. She is always with one group or the other, leaving only to check on the other group, to eat or to chase away an oto that she imagines may trouble her fry. I wish she'd leave them alone, or they would be less stubborn & move away. Their tails are very ragged, caused by nips from krib mum. But all they do is move slightly to the left or right, which just means they get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th nip on the tail. They are stubborn & so is krib mum.
The fry are fed twice daily with BBS, but also now try to steal adult live brine shrimp from mum. Quite funny & cute to see a fry swimming around with an adult brine shrimp hanging out of it's mouth (it's too big to fit fully in their mouth, so fry swim around chewing & swallowing, chewing & swallowing for quite a while before the shrimp is gone). Wish my camera was good enough to capture it. Sometimes fry are very game and close to mum's mouth while she is eating & I often hope they don't get eaten by accident. But mum is ever careful, clever & protective. Last night it happened, a fry & a shrimp went in her mouth. But mum knew her mistake & spat both out, so her fry would not be harmed. Sometimes she backs off & lets the fry take a shrimp she was clearly pouncing for. I wonder how long she will allow that type of behaviour.

The fry & mum show no fear of me and both swim up to the eye dropper I use to feed BBS or brine shrimp.

Dad, who was banished from the tank as a bully, is quite scared & runs & hides from me during feeding. He comes out only after I back away from the tank. Typical bully - only brave around those smaller than him.

Cheers
TW

Typical bully - only brave around those smaller than him

Robyn,

Nice details on the fry, I like it very much when you give us these updates. Your log should be called "Fry Breeder Log" - excellent

About your plant: corymbosa? As in Hygrophila corymbosa? I thought that is the plant that I had all over the right side of my 125, the right side of the first installment of the 40, the left back of the 29 now, and the middle back of the 20 (man, I have/had it everywhere ).

I types "hygro corymbosa" into the google image search and quite a few differnt shaped plants appear, meaning that you may well have this plant even if it doesn't look anything like mine.

Emersed (out of the water) grown leaves fall off (most of the time with most of the plants) once a plant is submersed for some time and usually will be replaced (in new growth) with under-water leaves.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF for the nice comments,

Even though this a planted tank & always will be, it's good for me to have a record of my fry's behaviour for future comparison. I'm glad that at least one other also enjoys them & I hope to read of your own experiences soon. I've corrected an error in my above posting too, the fry are over 5 weeks old (not 4 as said before my correction).

I think that this is the plant http://plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=corymbosa, the 2nd one down looks like it a lot.

I hope it recovers & will keep my eye out for fresh growth. Being a non C02 tank, growth is a lot slower in this tank. I add about 2ml excel daily - is that about right?

Cheers
TW

Robyn congrats on the krib fry. I kinda lost track of this. Are the krib and fry the only fish in the tank?

My Scapes

Hi tetratech

Thanks for popping in. The tank has only mum krib, the fry & 2 ottos. Dad krib has been banished, as after initially being the perfect husband & joint fry carer, he turned on his wife - wouldn't let her near the fry.

Fry never keep still & I don't know how many I have - but a minimum of 20.

The fry have been, from the start, much stronger & more active than any of my apisto fry. I hope that if I practice on these easier fish, that I will have more success with apistos next time I try.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I have been at my LFS this week and I have seen a small tank with kribs and guess what: about half had no tail fin anymore

But otherwise, all seemed to get along well

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

about half had no tail fin anymore

Those naughty kribs. Now my 2 are in separate tanks, both have perfect tails. Sad the same can't be said for my stubborn ottos that reside with mum & fry. Ottos seem not to care one little bit

Cheers
TW

So your Otos have lost their tails as well

I don't remember you ever mentioning this.

Hope you don't mind that I made the 300th entry in your log.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hope you don't mind that I made the 300th entry in your log.

Go for it. I didn't even notice what post number I was up to, but I'm glad it was you.

Well, really half the blame lays with the otos, who didn't seem to care one bit when mum krib wanted them to move on. They would do no move than nudge to the side by the smallest fraction of measurement.

Anyway, mum no longer guards and so my 2 otos now has perfect tails. I have 10 surviving fry who now eat anything, so I've packed up the unsightly brine shrimp hatcherys from the tank. They eat better than the mum, who for some reason refuses to take pellets or flakes (will only accept live or frozen, so she is a bit of a pain). Provided I presoak the spectrum pellets for a few minutes, the fry having been accepting those for about a week now - so their care is now much easier.

Do you remember my new plant a little while back (corymbosa). Sadly, one by one, it lost all it's leaves one by one I haven't removed what may be left of the roots, in case it comes back on it's own, however, creeping wisteria seems to be growing over that area now.

Cheers
TW

Time for a baby shot, here we go

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Cheers
TW

another baby shot

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Cheers
TW

last one

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Cheers
TW

Stage 1 of the conversion of this tank has now been completed.

Here is a picture of the tank in it's "as purchased" state. It was one of those package deal tanks - with a heavy looking built-in black hood. The filter was also built into the hood & it was a trickle filter style affair.



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Cheers
TW

Here are the latest shots of my krib fry. Should I still call them that - I suspect they are now juveniles? They were born Oct 06. I have 11 of them in the tank to grow on and they share with 2 ottos.

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Cheers
TW

A blurry close up of one of the fry/juvenile kribs.

I'm not sure how to sex them, but I suspect I might have all 11 females (no males).

The only basis I'm using for the moment is this:-

* Dad had a diamond shaped tail
* mum had the more usual shaped tail
* Each one of the babies has the same shaped tail as mum

Is that a correct way to sex them, I wonder?

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Cheers
TW

Very nice Robyn,

I cannot believe how much they have grown. I am by no means an expert on kribs, but I would assume that gender specific trades may develop at a later stage. What are the chances that of 11 survivors all are female? Pretty slim I guess, except if the females are much hardier from the get-go

Ingo

EDIT: oh - and the tank looks very nice as well, except that its plant arrangements are too centered for my taste, in particular the two plants in the foreground

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo

The tank is now so silent, with the eheim filter and overall, I like the tank much better without the hood.

The light is not all I'd hoped - bought cheap on ebay & you get what you pay for. It's a T5 unit, taking HE (high energy) tubes, not HO (high output) tubes. I never knew there was more than one type of T5 light system, but there is. T5 HE's are no better than your standard T8's and for that reason, not many stores even stock them. It provides around 1.7wpg, only slightly more than I had before (1.5wpg). Oh well - buyer beware.

except that its plant arrangements are too centered for my taste, in particular the two plants in the foreground

I know, I know. It's in serious need of replant, but that won't happen until the kribs move out. Until that happens, I'm just letting things be.

I have a very vague scaping plan which will include mainly nana anubia on driftwood, java fern (we don't seem to have the narrow leaf version over here - grrrr). Probably wisteria also - low & creeping. The two swords will move somewhere in the background. Plants will have to be low light.

When ready, my 20G will shut down & the nigerian red pair will move into this tank (kribs having vacated by then).

20G will shut down, replaced by a 4ft african cichlid tank (There will also be a new 3ft, replacing my current 43.5G).

See ya

Cheers
TW

Wow, those little fish ( LF? ) are really cute, congrats!

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks for popping in Matty. Yeah, they're cute for sure. It's been a lot of fun watching them grow & the growth rate has really sped up in recent weeks.

The UV sterilizer I refer to a few posts back, is the one you helped me with way back. It was just too hard to install when the tank was in it's original configuration.

BTW, as you're a LFS worker with a lot of knowledge, if you get a chance, can you look at this thread of mine. http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/33008.1.htm?2#Do you know anything about these fish?

Thanks again for popping in.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I am contemplating to add an external canister filter to my 29G as well, so I am glad to read that you are happy with one in this tank. What is its flow rate (in G/h)?

Also, I added a few links to your Apisto thread. BTW, of course it was not good to buy at the spur of moment, but you knew that

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What is its flow rate (in G/h)?

I bought this Eheim Professionel 2224 cannister filter quite some time ago on ebay, but only now got around to installing it (had to purchase the light first)

Here are the Specifications:

* For tank size up to: 66 G
* Pump output: 184.9 g/h
* Filter circulation: 132 g/h

It is bigger than I need for this tank, but not big enough for either the 3ft or 4ft tanks being planned. Flow rate is too fast for my UV sterilizer, but the hose adapter has 2 shut-off valves which can be adjusted separately. The flow rate is set by means of sliding the valve on the output side. Appears to be no way of measuring by how much you reduce the flow, but I have set it about half way & I can notice a difference if I put my hand in the flow of the returning water.

I am contemplating to add an external canister filter to my 29G as well

What filter is on the 29G at the moment?

BTW, of course it was not good to buy at the spur of moment, but you knew that

Yeah, I know, I know. I am a sucker when I see a pretty apisto - particularly as they are hard to find. I wouldn't knowingly buy a hybrid, but now I have them in the community tank, they are pretty to watch and are not aggressive. Fry in that tank is never an option anyway - not even one survivor from in there.

Me and my fish tank experiences always seem full of mistakes - seems I'll never learn - but what the heck - I'm still having fun.

Cheers
TW

but what the heck - I'm still having fun

And that is all that counts

I currently have an AquaClear 70 (formerly 300) on the 29G tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I didn't plan to start the re-do of this tank until after the baby kribs moved out, but I found this new wood today.

So, every plant was removed & I have tied nana, some petite nana too, some java fern & some Windelov. Some extra tenellus I have left from the 43.5 trim went in there too. There is a small crypt at the front & a larger one at the rear.

It's not looking yet how I want it. When the timber went in the tank, it wouldn't stay down, so I had to jamb in down with some rocks - which are not part of the final look.

I don't really know what the final look will be really, other than I want a simple to maintain layout, without anything that needs regular trimming. The exception to that might be if I harvest some riccia from the 43G to see how it works in here. If I use the riccia, it will be on smallish easy to remove rocks for trimming.

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Cheers
TW

Whoa! Cool wood!

And I liked those purple krib fry too!

Robyn,

Sounds like a "Little_Fish Style Redo".

How long did it take?

Funny thing, while going food shopping with the family today I went with my daughter to the fish store near by, is more interesting than the food, but the fish there are . Not well taken care off, you know. Anyway, they had some wood there as well, and from the shape and color, and the fact that it would float, it was a lot like yours. Now, the wood I saw was primarily for reptile cages and it was Grape. And from what I remember, that is NOT good wood for aquaria. But senility made me forget why it would not be good .

Now, go and show us a picture.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi fish patty, thanks for popping in. My kribs really aren't purple - I just have a lousy camera. However, though not purple, I still like them too

Hi LF

Yeah, this was another of my spur of the moment purchases. Was with hubby @ LFS while he bought his salt water (he buys it ready made) & I saw this wood & liked it.

Now, the wood I saw was primarily for reptile cages and it was Grape.

Do you mean Grape is the is the name of the tree it comes from - otherwise I'm not sure. I thought the problem was just it needs to be waterlogged for a month or so. But if your concern is because it causes some danger to the fish, I will have to do something. You'd think LFS would only sell stuff that was safe though, so I hope so. If you recall anything further about this wood, pls let me know. I'm sure if I ask LFS, they will tell me all their products are fish safe.

The re-do took quite a few hours & just tying the Windelov fern, nana & java fern took a while. Tank looks bare but I'm reluctant to buy more plants. When the 20G shuts down, it's anubias will transfer to this tank, plus I will add more tennulus & some riccia from the 43G, but I have to wait for some to grow. Unfortunately, I had just thrown out most of the spare tennulus I had - but luckily I kept a few.

I don't know if I like it as yet, but this may be due to the lack of plants & as well as the intrusive rocks keeping the wood down. Will try to post a pic tonight if I can.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I really don't remember exactly what it was that I may remember (and I may be wrong on top of it), but I don't think it had something to do with danger to fish. It was more in the line of constant tanninsbeing released from the sap in Grape (the fruit thing they make wine of ) or that it is not durable in water for a long time and falls apart or something.

And:

You'd think LFS would only sell stuff that was safe though

- Save for who? The fish? Yeah, that is why the LFS sells painted fish, right? Or how about a laser that shines the fish in the eye when they swim by? Or all kinds of plastic ornaments where fish can get stuck in?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I have googled this grape wood & although I don't know if I have this type (or not) it seems correct that it is not good for aquariums & is best for reptiles. This LFS doesn't sell reptiles - in fact it only sells fish & fish supplies, so if this is grape wood, I will be a little annoyed. I will have to watch it closely. I found a couple of comments similar to this

Grape wood is best suited in medium to low humidity environments only. Under wet or high humidity, grape wood has a tendency to fungus or mold easily

Doesn't sound good. I wonder if I should just undo all my work from the other night - but I would need to find a suitable replacement wood first, so as to have somewhere to place the plants currently tied to it. I'll have to ask LFS if they can tell me what wood it is.

Anyway, I'll start with some pics of this wood that may (or may not) stay in the tank. I tied the windelov too high up the wood & if I decide this wood stays, I will either add more down lower in addition to what's there now - or remove the top half of what is there now & reposition it below.

The pics are somewhat repetitive, in that I have taken several shots from different views. Feel free to nod off anytime

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Cheers
TW

Another full front shot, but angled.

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Cheers
TW

Here's a tall side shot. I haven't got the whole width in there, as due to tank positioning, I couldn't get in properly to take the shot. The crypt at the back has been cut out of this pic

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Cheers
TW

another side view. Oh & look, here are some of my babies.

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Cheers
TW

Pictures start on previous page

Here's a partial view of the crypt that was cut out of an earlier pic. It's popping up behind the rock (the rock is holding the wood down)

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Cheers
TW

Some of the smaller tenellus plants I put in here. The others are further towards the back & haven't shown up in any of the pics so far.

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Cheers
TW

a close up of one of the anubia , oh & I just noticed you can see some of the other tenellus behind it.

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Cheers
TW

Close up of another section of the wood, with some anubia (on a sep small segment of driftwood) and some baby java fern on the suspect wood.

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Cheers
TW

close up of the wendelov. That's it for now.

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Cheers
TW

For comparison, here is a shot taken of the tank around 20 Feb (prior to this makeover, but after I converted it to cannister filter & new light).

I posted this pic 20.02.07 & although I don't remember deleting the post, I guess I must have accidentally, because it is gone. If I'd realised that, I would have started tonight's posting with this pic, cause now it is a little out of sequence.

This is the BEFORE shot. If you're interested, scroll backwards in this thread to see the AFTER shots.

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Cheers
TW

I really like the looks of this tank TW. The shape of the driftwood is really nice the way it twists and turns in the tank. The plants appear to be a lot like ivy growing along a branch in a tree. Very nice.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Robyn,

Nice pictures

It seems when viewed from the front that all is in order, but when viewed from the side it looks like the wood is almost closer to the front than the back. Is that so?

Also, did you move the light around when you took the pictures? In some shots the front looks very dark and if that would always be the case then it may not support many plants there.

And - the babies are all grown up

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The plants appear to be a lot like ivy growing along a branch in a tree.

Thanks OldTimer - that's the look I was going for. Thanks for the popping in & for the tank compliment too. So nice to have a new visitor

the wood is almost closer to the front than the back. Is that so?

Hi Ingo

Could be. I might change that, but the reason for the wood's position is that the only plant I didn't remove was some creeping wisteria at the back & I left room for the crypt (planted in a rock) to go back to it's usual spot in the back corner.

did you move the light around when you took the pictures?

Very observant. Towards the end of the photo shoot, I noticed that the light was pushed all the way to the back of the tank (must not have moved it back to the middle after the redo on Saturday night).

The current light gives me 1.7wpg, which is around what I had with the hood/light combo set up (it was 1.5wpg). Although I have a spare regulator & gas bottle laying around, at this stage I don't intend this to be hi-tech. Wanting low maintence here. I've been looking around at lighting options (mainly 'cause this is a dodgy unit with limited tube availability - not sure of K rates available either). But the PCs available all seem they would give me too much light.

If I stick with what I have, 1.7wpg should be fine for these low light plants, wouldn't you say?

Cheers
TW

If I stick with what I have, 1.7wpg should be fine for these low light plants, wouldn't you say?

Sure thing

Overall you should be fine with your plant selection, but you will have to be more careful with shading. Some of your "higher-up" plants could create too much shade below and then it may be too dark there for moderate growth.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the advice LF. My earlier post was written from work, & a look at the wood in the tank reminded me that another reason the wood is too far forward is due to a piece of the wood that reaches backwards towards the rear of the tank. This limits how far I can push the wood back, nade worse by the 2nd piece of upward reaching wood (with the wendolev fern) & the way I have angled & secured it in place with fishing line. To a certain extent I can fix that, but I'll wait a week or two before I do anything with it. Why wait? 1. because if the wood does turn mouldy etc, the wood will be removed permanently & 2. If it doesn't go mouldy, I want to leave it till it is waterlogged, so it is easier to work with in the tank before I reposition it.

Well, that's the plan now - but who knows, if it annoys me too much, I might do it anyway.

Re: the higher plants shading the lower - you're right, plus I think it looks a little odd being up so high at the end of the wood. If & when I do the wood rearranging, I will move all the wendolev down a couple of inches, that way it shouldn't shade anything.

Cheers
TW

Grape wood is best suited in medium to low humidity environments only. Under wet or high humidity, grape wood has a tendency to fungus or mold easily

It has started already - so the grape wood will have to go, once I have the replacement ready to take it's place.

I still stubbornly have in my mind atheme for this tank that will be heavily wooded, with many anubia attached & some wendlov too, as well as java fern. Add a few crypts, tenellus & Ricca rocks & I will be done.

So here is the current contender for replacement wood. It is soaking for now, as it still floats. This angle is the current angle I plan to use, but alternate angles follow.

I know how to attach the anubia to the narrow twiggy parts of the wood - but I don't know who to attach the wendolev to the thick stubby end and If anyone reads this & can give me suggestions on how to do this, I'd really appreciate it.


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Cheers
TW

alternate view

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Cheers
TW

final view

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Cheers
TW

Nice Wood Robyn

- where did you get this one from? I like the final view, and I actually would not attach Windelov in that position. I would plant Nana Petites ( $$$$$$$ ) all around the base and the lower parts of the individual branches and keep the top bare, maybe some neatly trimmed moss on them in one or the other spot may go well too (but think of the maintenance). In addition, good looking rocks around the base and from there dispersing on the substrate could be a great addition as well.

so the grape wood will have to go

- Are you certain it is Grape?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

where did you get this one from

Well - not from same place as alleged grape wood. Good LFS - huge workshop out the back - these guys will make custom make my 2 new tanks. Good LFS - lousy hours. No late night shoping & not open on Sunday at all. Usually have nice wood - so I rushed there after work today.

I like the final view, and I actually would not attach Windelov in that position

Do you? I'm not sure yet - but agree that view is nice. I tried to post a poll asking people's opinion - wouldn't work, so I've asked mods to delete the thread & will try again later. Anyway, so no windelov. Ok. You think nana petites, instead of nanas? The nanas I have already will have to stay, plus some more from the 20G will come across when it shuts down. But besides that, I placed an internet order today for 3 more nanas & 3 nana petites. Do you think I should change them all to nana petites, if I can. It may look a bit bare at first, as I won't have enough - due to cost, I will have to build it up gradually.

neatly trimmed moss on them in one or the other spot may go well too (but think of the maintenance)

I am done with moss - too messy, especially on larger pieces of hardwood that are hard to remove. I might add riccia on rocks - but no moss. May not work though (no C02,low light). As for rocks - keeping my eye out for some. Haven't found any I like for a while - all very unnatural looking - but eventually I'll find some.

Are you certain it is Grape?

Not 100% - haven't been back to LFS to ask. It looks like the pics I saw when I googled. A lot of info I found said a white slimy film would quickly form on the wood - & it is forming now. The sooner I can put the new wood in (& therefore have somewhere to put all the plants) the happier I will be to get it out of there.

Next time I'm at that LFS, I'll trade it in. They give you 50% credit on hardware & fish returns. Funniest thing about this LFS, is the owner fancys himself as a maker of DVD on fish care. He stars in his own DVD's - one for just about every sort of fish keeping (not planted tanks) & whenever you are in store, you hear him trying to push his DVD sale. Didn't suck me in, but both hubby & son are proud owners of the DVD. Hubby has the marine one & my son has the African Cichlid one.

Thanks for your advice LF

Cheers
TW

Nice hunk of wood Robyn. Since it is a hunk, remember it might be difficult to remove if you need to clean it. Just something to think about when using it in the tank.
I personally like the first position, but I think it would depend on what you planning to do with the scape.

And I second Matty's suggestion of getting a new camera. Your plants look good but the pics don't do them justice.

My Scapes

Hi tetra - thanks for stopping in. I must have been replying to LF at around the same time you were posting here.

Yeah, I know the camera is c##p - but no spare cash at the moment. Whenever I get any spare, I tend to spend it on tanks / wood / plants themselves - but one day, it will definitely move to the top of the shopping list.

Saving all my spare coins for the stocking of the African tank, when I eventually get it started.

Cheers
TW

How many nana petites do you think I would need for the base?

Cheers
TW

Approximately 1 million. I got my petites at about the size of a quarter...you can do the math

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Approximately 1 million

At 7.95 a pop, I will need to get finance for this project

Anyway, before reading your post I sent an email off requesting my purchase order be changed to no nanas, & 12 nana petites - waiting on response.

Cheers
TW

Seems my heater has broken, or at least the thermostat light no longer lights up. Luckily I had a spare - but also, at this time of the year in Sydney, it doesn't matter. The heater doesn't need to turn on all summer.

The other thing is I finally got around to installing the UV sterilizer I have had sitting around for months.

I'm not sure about the flow rate & if anyone visits here who thinks they might be able to help, I have a this http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/33403.1.htm?0.6286648# thread asking a question.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I know very little about UVs and flowrates, but why don't you send a PM to tetratech, he is the expert on this topic. Just point him to that thread for help.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF. Matty & some others visited my UV thread & gave me some tips on measuring the flow.

The new driftwood is in the tank, but all still looks quite bare. Nearly all the anubia I already have has been used just on the base, leaving me none for any of the branches. I'm waiting on a plant order, so more will be added as I get my hands on them.

This is a side view.

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Cheers
TW

Photos start on previous page. The next few shots are trying to catch glimpses of the new residents, a male agassizi & his harem of 3 girls. Someone was closing down their tank and needed a new home for these guys. They moved in on Sunday & are still shy & settling in. They haven't eaten yet (at least that I've seen) but I hope they get some that I don't see. The male seems to remain more in the open & was patrolling the tank more today than previous.

Each female has already staked it's own little territory.

Here's the male & just above his head, that yellow is his wife no 1, in the nook in the wood, she has claimed as her own.



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Cheers
TW

Wife no 2 peeps out from underneath the cave that this small piece of driftwood provides her with. You probably just make her out, even though my shot is very dark.

She is the most reclusive & has hardly come out at all. Just comes part way out, sticks out her little face & looks around for a while, before moving deeper into her home again.

Oh, & some of the krib juviniles didn't want to be left out of the photo either.

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Cheers
TW

This is another shot of wife no. 1, taken looking straight down into the tank. When she wants to, she can disappear deep into the crevice in the wood there, & you can't even see she is there. That is her home.

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Cheers
TW

Couldn't get a shot of wife no 3, but she lives here, in the cave under the slate.

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Cheers
TW

Nothing more to record here in my log, but just because I like my new fish, here is another picture anyway.

So far, all is very peaceful in the tank.

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Cheers
TW

Nice new additions to the tank, TW. It looks like the male will color up nicely once he is settled in.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Wasn't going to include a full frontal, as the tank is so bare looking, but here it is anyway.

Besides the bareness (which will gradually be corrected) I think the wood might look better if the up wards diagonal wasn't quite so extreme. To lower it (without lowering it all the way) I'll need to get some rock of suitable height for a part of the wood to rest on. Until then, this seems the best I can do for now.

That's it for now.

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Cheers
TW

You may want to give the plants some time to settle in and put on some growth before you start adjustments. I know a tank just doesn't look right until it starts to fill in and for me anyways it's hard to picture it in my mind until it does so.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

That's good advice oldtimer. Especially as I have plants in another tank to move accross. My anubia order hasn't come in yet either, so they will make a difference.

I did play around with the angle, and here is a shot of the wood, with the upward diagonal not so extreme. I think I like it better, but still not sure. It's not really that different. Probably won't be until the extra plants are in there.

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Cheers
TW

Hi,
Personally, I'd do something about that heater.
It looks like its crossing swords with the driftwood
and is extremely distracting.
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Very true Frank - it was previously hidden by stems, which I don't intend including in this scape.

My other tanks have heaters that have black covers - maybe that would help. That bright chrome really hit your eye visually doesn't it.

The position of the power cords mean that I either have to have it vertical, or if I'm going to slope it, it has to be this angle. I'd like one of those external heaters, but they are soooo expensive. Hmmm, I'll see what I can do.

Cheers
TW

The Visi Therm Stealth Heaters are all black and blend in nicely, if you can get them Down Under.

On the other hand, why does the "position of the power cords" dictate that you cannot move the heater horizontal at the bottom in the back? Is the wire too short?

Here is a shot from this weekend of my 20G - and there is a shiny silver heater horizontally in the back left section of the tank. The cable is coming up in the left back corner and in these lights (picture) not even visible.

Ingo

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Where Is The Heater?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I still have to work on completely hiding the heater - so just pretend you can't see it. There are more anubia nanas now, but still more are required.

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Cheers
TW

For no reason, other than I like him, here's a shot of the new apisto male, who lives in peace with my 11 juvenile kirbs. He mainly chases his harem, rather than mating. Aggg, another reluctant male in my tank

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Cheers
TW

Aggg, another reluctant male in my tank

- Join the club, Robyn

I like the loads of Anubias, but you created a left and a right tank. The left side is great, the right is so-la-la, with the plants being too grande, you know what I mean?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Join the club, Robyn

Annoyingly, the private owner I bought these from tells me they laid in his tank - but I don't know what to believe now.

the right is so-la-la

Yes, I know what you mean. I feel everything on the right is just temporary at the moment, just marking time until I bring bring across some stuff from the 20G once it (eventually) shuts down.

The below pic is the 20G & I will definitely bring across the two nanas you see (they're on small pieces of wood that can be placed strategically on the substrate & make nice natural caves for reluctant romeos & their harems). I will also try bringing across the two crypts, although I think it was you who said crypts often get very cranky at being moved & so I suppose they might up & die on me. I also might bring across the larger anubia & if I do, I might attach it the rear & far left of my large feature wood. So in the end, the right hand side should all be a fairly low level affair & when the time comes I'll ask where the crypt should go. My vision at the moment is the eye drawn up wards from left to right by my main feature wood with just low stuff (the anubia on wood) underneath & maybe the crypts don't fit that plan - hate to see them wasted thought. Maybe they could go front left?

It is still my kribs that stop my tank plans going ahead but I don't know what to do with them and while they stay, I can't shut the 20G tank down. They are my babies & I'm finding it hard to think of parting with them - but I will have to as I just do not have room for 11 kribs when they grow to full size. I can probably keep one or two in the planted tank, but can't see 11 adult kribs continuing to live in peace with the apistos.

This tank also always continues to give me problems with algae. I sometimes wonder if setting up C02 would solve this. It would also allow the addition of riccia rocks, as I am convinced that (as seen in my 43G) C02 is more important to riccia than high light.

Do you think C02 would help the algae problem?

Thanks for popping in Ingo

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Cheers
TW

I "can't see it."

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

yeah, I don't see any algae.

I agree with Ingo on the assessment of the tank. Those nanas could replace the current plants on the right, or you could use that low growing wisteria. I think either would work. Those crypts IMO could fit in well if properly placed on the left.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

yeah, I don't see any algae.

See it now? Look on the anubia. Anyway, tank is still in it's very unsettled state, although I'm a step closer to shutting down the 20G & bringing it's plants across to this tank. Till then, this tank is looking bare. I had too much riccia from my trim in the 43G, so I've added 2 small riccia covered rocks. The Tenellus has been removed from the front right corner - you can see it floating top left - haven't brought myself around to throwing it out just yet.

I can't get the algae under control in the tank. I will try reducing the lighting by another hour less per day. If that doesn't work, I may have to give in & put in some creeping wisteria - but I don't really want to do that, so will try reduced lighting.

The reluctant romeo apisto & one of his brides have finally spawned. She is guarding, but not as well as the krib mum did. She seems intimidated by dad & if he comes too near to her nest, she runs away and the eggs are unguarded for a short time. She always returns, but she is certainly gone long enough that if there were predators, they would be eaten. I removed the juvenile kribs as soon as I found the eggs, but it is probably from dad there will be a threat, if any. So, grandma is waiting patiently to see if the eggs hatch and if the fry survive. Fingers crossed.

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Cheers
TW

Till then, this tank is looking bare

but I have to say that the tank looks really clean

I assume you have algae issues because you have very little plant mass in there that is actively growing on a measurable scale. What is your fert regime? Can it be that you are imbalanced? Turning off the lights earlier (or on later) may help though.

And Yeah!!! to the eggs, although it certainly makes me jealous. You sure have talent in the breeding department

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congrats on the eggs! That's great. I agree that the tank needs a few more plants, especially to hold back the algae, but looks real nice otherwise.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I reduced the lighting as much as I dared, but still the algae advanced onwards. The pic tells a 1000 words

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Cheers
TW

So I caved in and added some wisteria to the tank in the hopes it will help with the algae. Besides that, I removed the big wood temporarily & painted the non planted areas with excel, in the hopes the algae will die off as a result, without the annubia suffering also.

Fingers crossed for improvements.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn,

That looks like a combined algae attack in the close-up. I seem to identify BBA and hair algae, is that right? The BBA should give way to the Excel, I doubt that the hair algae will though.

Would it be possible (without making a major mess) to remove the wood and give it a good scrub to remove the existing algae?

You know, maybe it is even some leaching of the wood that causes the algae in the first place

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi LF, thanks for the visit.

Yep, seems to be green flowing algae & the little black tuffs, which I think is BBA. The wood can be easily removed (that's what I did last night - although I didn't scrub it). I rubbed each leaf until the removable stuff came off, leaving only some leaves with black marks that wouldn't budge & then painted wood with the excel. I'll pull it out again in a day or so and do the scrub, since the excel won't work with the hair algae.

This tank is supposed to be the easy one, but what with regularly having to deal with algae, it's not turning out that way. This is the tank with the expensive UV filter, and whilst I have it for parasites, I thought it was supposed to help with algae too. Grrr.

Even though I didn't want the wisteria in there, I think the apistos may prefer it. The girl apistos should be able to move about with more cover now, so the male mightn't notice & chase them so much.

BTW, the eggs mentioned a few posts earlier disappeared without a trace. Hopefuly, the fact they spawned once might mean they'll try again.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I have hair algae confined to the wood in my 125G since maybe at least one year. I don't bother to take action as long is it does not spread. During my make-overs, I remove the wood anyway and give it a good scrub.

I will keep my fingers crossed on the spawning, I am sure it will happen again (as it did in my 40G, but with no positive end result so far).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The BBA is going red, so I guess that means it's in the process of dyeing. I'm just about positive the hair algae is doing the same. I'm not going to do a wood scrub at this stage, but at next water change (Wednesday) I'll give the wood another brushing with excel - that is, if it needs it.

For comparison, here is a shot of the wood full of the the black BBA and green hair algae

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Cheers
TW

Algae still there, but I'm sure there's a lot less fuzzy green stuff now.

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Cheers
TW

I'll give the wood another brushing with excel - that is, if it needs it.

If it is not too much trouble to give it a brushing then I would do it anyway, as you may think it is good but there is still some tiny stuff left.

Otherwise, glad to read that it works. If it behaves like mine then after turning red it will get smaller and smaller and then is gone.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tank Watcher, Hi just thought I would say hello Just joined FP after reading Little_Fish's , Wings and your logs in the Planted Forum . I am back in the hobby after 30 years and have a lot to catch up on . Love your stuff and I look forward to seeing more of your tanks in the future .
Garry

Hi Countryfish

Welcome to FP

Thanks for your kind words & for stopping in. Hope to see you around the forums /:'

Cheers
TW

Hi TW

Just saw your log. Congrats on the fry! how are they gng now?

have you decided what to do with the male yet?

my two rams had this same type of behaviour.. one minute they were great and the next the male was attacking the female whilst trying to guard the fry. i moved the fry into a breeder net cos it was safer.

keep us updated on how the fry are! they are such cute little creatures!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi CD, thanks for the visit.

have you decided what to do with the male yet?

I was too scared to put him back in the main tank, in case he forgot the fry were his & ate them. I kept him for a while in a small tank I had, but I felt sorry for him in there, so I took him to Auburn. Unfortunately, the mum has since died. She started to get a swollen eye (I don't know why, as I am careful to always 50% water change & my water parameters are always good). Luckily the fry were almost juveniles, but I didn't want to medicate the tank with them in there so tried melafix & pimafix - didn't work and she passed on.

keep us updated on how the fry are! they are such cute little creatures!

Yes they are. But I have made a mistake & recently lost 3. Since their mum died an appisto male & 3 females moved in & for a long time, no breeding. Then there were eggs & I worried that the bigger apisto when guarding may pick on the much smaller krib juveniles, so I quickly set up another tank for them. Thought it would be okay, as I used media from my cycled tanks for the filter for this temporary tank, but within 2 weeks, 2 of them died. Tonight, I found another one dead, so I have moved them back into the tank with the apistos (nothing came of their eggs - just disappeared). I don't think they have been as active in the last week, so I hope the move back to their birth tank isn't too late to save the rest. Heartbreaking to have them since last October & then to lose 3 in such quick succession.

I won't be able to keep them all for much longer. When I get my african tank up & running, I have to shut down one of my planted tanks (my other half has put his foot down about the number of tannks I can have) & there won't be room for 8 adult kribs. I will keep one in my planted community tank and unless I can find someone I trust to take them, I will have to give them to Auburn. I'd refer to give them to someone I know, but don't know of anyone - so it will probably be Auburn.

They're one reason why I'm going slow on the African tank (although St George should just about finished making it now - waiting for their call) as I thought I would keep them as long as I can.

Do you still have your krib fry?

Cheers
TW

Hi Tankwatcher , sorry to hear about your loss of the little ones Always difficult when you loose fish but must be even harder when you've breed them . Hope it all works out in the long run
Garry

The excel works a treat on the hair algae. Here's the before shot, taken around 11.05.07



and here's a couple of shots taken tonight



I still have algae problems on the leaves and you might notice the holes on the anubia leaves. Any suggestions to help out with the holes would be appreciated. I had reduced the lighting considerably & I'm gradually increasing. Back up to 6hrs a day now. Ferts are KNO3 1/8th tspn, a pinch each of KH2P04 & K2S04 dosed once weekly. Traces 5ml & iron 2ml dosed once weekly.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I of course can't say this for sure, but normally holes are a sign of a lack of Potassium. This is supported further by your routine of

Ferts are KNO3 1/8th tspn, a pinch each of KH2P04 & K2S04 dosed once weekly.

I use in my low tech tanks at least as much potassium as nitrate, even a little more. The fish in the tank (and decaying matter to some degree) produce ammonia and phosphates, as such avoiding a total null value. But potassium, that - I believe - is only added by us. Given that, by EI Standards and my guess, potassium should be on the level of nitrates, you seem to add too little.

Hope this makes sense,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the post LF.

KH2P04 = Mono Potassium Phospate
KNO3 = Potassium Nitrate
K2S04 = ???

I think it's the K2S04 you are saying I need more of???

Cheers
TW

K2S04 = ???

Potassium Sulfate, yes - that is the one where I would add more.

There have been recent discussions on overdosing Potassium, but nothing solid has been formed of it yet. Also, I do it since a year at least with no problem. And the Sulfate is no problem either, it just doesn't do anything (good or bad) in these quantities.

here is my dosing schedule for my 20 / 29:

- Water Changes every other week on both, immediately followed by:
- KH2P04 (I have 2ppm in the tab): pinch / pinch
- KNO3: a little less than 1/4tsp / a good 1/4tsp
- K2S04: 1/4tsp / 1/4tsp
- Excel: 10ml / 15ml
- Micros (on next day, Tropica Plant Nutrient liquid): 5ml / 7ml

And that is only once in these two weeks between water changes.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thank Ingo

Just in case Frank ever pops in - see the pic - no more silver heater. I've found a black one now.
Also shows the agassizii They're easier to photograph these days. Always begging for food. If they see me come near - out they come & head straight for the feeding corner (that's where they are now). They must recognise me though, as if I have friends over & they look in the tank, they hide & won't come out at all.

Excuse the glare/refelction on the back & sides of the tank glass. I have a lot of trouble with that reflection lately - in all my tank shots

Cheers
TW

Hi TW,

The tank is beginning to really look nice. I suspect the
fish are "hiding" because it is kinda "stark" and very
bright. Now, by "stark, I mean you may want to consider
something that will encourage the fish to feel safe
swimming out in the open. Perhaps some floating plant, or
some stem plants along the three boundries (back & sides)
that you allow to grow to the surface and across it. That
will give the shade that they may require.

I gather the heater is laying on the bottom in the back?
(grin)

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank

fish are "hiding" because it is kinda "stark" and very
bright

They don' hide for me (only when other people - not me - stick their faces up to the tank for a closer look. Fish sure hide then. All I have to do is stand in front of the tank, and out they come, one by one until all are waiting patiently in their feeding corner. I don't want stems in this stank for some reason, but do you think floating duckweed (is that what it's called) would make them more comfortable?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

First of all, don't fix what is not broken

If your fish come out for you, but not guests, then nothing is wrong with the light etc. I have duckweed and water lettuce in my tanks (or had, in some cases) and the fish do the same. No wonder, as most guests have an attitude that is not suitable for our spoiled animals, as in jumping up and down in front of the tanks etc

Tank looks nice, and while I was looking at it for the second time I noticed that it has quite a few similarities to my current vision for the 29G after its next redo, bummer.

How many Nana petites are in there? Seems like 30 at least (if they are petites, maybe they are small Nanas).

About the glare: try to put the focal point of the camera onto the wisteria, the brightest plant in the tank. This may adjust lighing to that level and make it less glary.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

Thanks for the visit.

I noticed that it has quite a few similarities to my current vision for the 29G after its next redo, bummer.

Wow, to think you have even some similarities with a tank of mine is quite an honour. Pls don't let any perceived similarities prevent you from your plans. You won't have the same driftwood, so it will be different. Your plants will be arranged differently, so it will be different. I am planning to borrow ideas from you all & hope to incorporate a beach area in my new 70G. A few of us have already done that and others (you I think) are considering it.

Also, if I get my way, this tank will shut down & be replaced with a 3 footer. I commenced negotiations with hubby on this plan tonight If negotiations successful, new tank will have the ability to divide into either 2 or 3 separated areas. Each section will be a scape on it's own. Because of the dividers, my focal driftwood will not fit. Sadly, I don't think I'll have room for it anywhere. I'd love to rehouse it in the new 70G I'm setting up - but I am stuck with my large fern covered log (see 43G log), as hubby bought that for me. I'm learning why it's not a good idea to accept gifts for the tank.

You are probably right with your count of nanas. I don't know if they are petite or just small nanas. I've never seen one here that is labeled petite. These were labeled "miniature nana" , so who knows.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

A 3 footer with dividers? Intersting

Why?

I guess it must have to do with the breeding of Apistos, right?

I will have to find time to put my 29G into action, and currently I cannot afford another 6 to 10 hour makeover time slot. In a while maybe though.

"I commenced negotiations with hubby on this plan tonight " - I will not ask

Miniature nana sounds like Petite to me, maybe you folks Down Under simply don't like the French and that is why you use another name. Remember the time when the Americans called a certain food product "Freedom Fries" ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Remember the time when the Americans called a certain food product "Freedom Fries" ?

No, I didn't hear that before, but it's funny. Don't know why we call it by a different name, here Down Under, but this thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/33190.1.htm?99# shows we say lots of things differently.

Why? I guess it must have to do with the breeding of Apistos, right?

Yes, that & because of the fish/tank shuffling I will have to do when I set up the African 4 footer. The trade-off was that the 20G must shut down & the male Nigerian red from that tank is not accepted in any of the other tanks. The other Nigerian Red male in the 43G will not have a bar of him. I experimented & moved him into this tank (23G), but the male agassizii will not tolerate him there either. I could divide the 20G (which is 2ft), but if I go 3ft I can have 3 sections. I then could move the apistos from the 43G into one section - where they could breed. The current agassizii would have their own section (so no mistakes between females from the cac & ags could occur) and I would have a safe haven for my Nigerian red in the final section. I also feel confident (sort of) that I could, if necessary, place fry in with him. Guppy fry have been born in his tank before & he couldn't have cared less. So really, the new 3ft divided tank plans are his fault, as I have nowhere to put him. I don't want to return him to LFS - I really like him. If I was allowed, I'd set him up in a separate tank on his own - but I have more chance of negotiating a shut down of this tank with a replacement tank.

Keep for your toes & fingers crossed for me.

Cheers
TW