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I found Platies to be rather hardy fish. I used 2 adults to start off my 20G QT, and the only other thing that may have had bacteria on it was the medium to small load of plants from the 29G. No Cycle - no Bio-Spira - no pre-seeded filter - nothing.

Interesting to know that you have such bad tab water. Any idea how high Ammonia and Notrate (also Nitrite? ) levels are?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'll check tap ammonia & nitrate readings when at home next. Last time I checked the nitrate it was somewhere between 10 - 20.

BTW, started searching for eco complete & found somewhere I can get it (it's slightly dearer than the ADA) but here is a quote from LFS.

Eco-Complete has an expected lifespan of 24-36mths, similar to the Seachem product, whereas ADA lasts over 10yrs.

Do you think that's right, that Eco-Complete will lose it's goodness by 3yrs. But maybe that doesn't matter, if we're all adding our ferts.

Any opinions on that?

Cheers
TW

Yeah, I just bought on ebay a 2nd hand 4ft tank. It's dimensions are:-

48 inches long
18 & a-half inches high
14 inches wide
So capacity is around 200L or 52.8G.

Don't know what this means for this log, probably will just rename it. I have to buy lights separately, but this will give me more options (might have to save up a bit first). Tank is pretty plain looking, but here is the ebay link http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com.au%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D7763185921%26fvi%3D1&item=7763185921&rd=1
Ingo, haven't done the tap water tests yet - will do so soon. Been too busy planning my tactic of bidding within seconds of auction end. Still a small tank by some members standard, but this will seem big to me (at least for a while). Yeah.

Cheers
TW

My god, I've never seen such MTS!!!

That is a nice tank though, like the rimless top

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Back in the saddle!

Robyn,

That is great - all you ever wanted - another tank

I don't know too much about tank sizes, but I have not heard of a standard sized 14" wide tank. I hope this will not be a problem, maybe you will need custom glass tops or something like that.

Also: how does the "Supre coral pink overall mini dress!" suit you?

Congratulations on the new tank

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

oops, didn't know you'd get to see that. Hmmm, will have to make all my kinky purchases under an alias from now on.

The tank has glass lids already, so no problem there. Apparently there is a small chip on one of the lids. I'm hoping that my eventual light fitting will cover it. I'm thinking I'll get a unit that sits on top of the glass. I can start researching about those fancy T5 lights, or whatever they are. But, I may have to stop, draw breath & save a little cash first.

Cheers
TW

Interesting to know that you have such bad tab water. Any idea how high Ammonia and Notrate (also Nitrite? ) levels are?

Tested them a few minutes ago and here are the test results of water straight from my tap:-

Ammonia : 4ppm
Nitrate : it's in between 10ppm & 20ppm.

It's pretty much what I expected it to be from previous tests.

Cheers
TW

Wow

That is horrible, in particular the Ammonia would worry me. So what do you do with the tab water? Your fish have to live with it after a water change and before the plants suck it up? I would think that this could cause major algae blooms?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Every water change I use Water Ager ACN, which states it removes 5ppm chlorine, 2ppm chloramine & 1ppm ammonia. I also use Amtrite Down, which claims to reduce toxic ammonia & nitrite. Also claims it converts Ammonia/Nitrite to Nitrate & Slime Coat. I going to put a question in my other log asking if this nitrate reading should effect on my fert schedule.

Cheers
TW

NowherMan6, forgot to say thanks for the new tank compliment. It's a different look for me (rimmless top). My other tanks were all package deals with built in black tops. I think I'll like this look (I hope)

Cheers
TW

Very excited. I get to keep this tank, too. Out to dinner tonight with hubby, we struck a deal. He's giving it back to me as an early birthday present.

Going tomorrow to pick up the 4t tank. It will sit empty for a while, until I can sort out lights for it though.

Cheers
TW

Woman (rather than Man) Robyn,

So, give us a quick summary on your current and soon-to-be-coming tanks. Include the time it took you to collect all of these.

You have to see a doctor about this MTS .

If you want a goal, last time I heard about it ACIDRAIN had somehwere around 125 tanks

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So, give us a quick summary on your current and soon-to-be-coming tanks. Include the time it took you to collect all of these.

I don't have that many, really I don't.

Since January 2006, I have :-
1. 20G tank - currently sitting empty (but hubby just asked me to set it up for him, so by next weekend it will be up & running - it will be a very simple tank.)
2. 43.5G planted tank with C02
3. 7.3G QT tank
4. 23.7G "minimalist" tank, not set up, but with it's cycling fish swimming in a bare tank.
5. 4ft long, 53G tank - currently sitting empty

That's not too many, is it

ACIDRAIN's record is safe. I shudder at the work of doing 50% water changes on 125 tanks.

Anyway, back to this log - I have to decide where I'm going to put this 23.7G, before I start loading it up with gravel & plants, so this log may be silent for a while until a decision is made. Fairly certain that I will try the ADA product in it though. That way, it will be a guinea pig for the big tank, to see if I like it.

Cheers
TW

Yeah Robyn,

5 tanks of rather significant size in pretty much 4 months is not all that much

If you should pull through with the idea of using the ADA substrate for this tank then it would not serve as a guinea pig for your other tank, but also as an example for all of us. Besides Rick there is currently nobody on this forum (except maybe someone who hasn't come forward with it yet ) that has it. We all can learn tons from your experience.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

5 tanks of rather significant size in pretty much 4 months is not all that much

Put it that way, it does seem like a lot. It's not that I want multiple tanks, I really want just one big one & one (slightly) smaller one. Made several newby mistakes by buying tanks that were too small. In each case (except this last) before I bought the new tank, I'd arranged with LFS to trade in the old tank. Each time, hubby thought that was a bad idea (you lose too much on the trade in) so he bought the tanks I didn't want anymore. In the case of the 23.7G tank, he bought it off me before I started looking for a new tank (& then gave it back to me on Saturday night). In the case of the 20G, despite firstly saying it's going in the garage, he asked me last night to set it up for him when I can.

About the ADA soil, I'm hoping if I don't use the powder type gravel, I won't have the clouding issues that Rick is having.

Cheers
TW

About the ADA soil, I'm hoping if I don't use the powder type gravel, I won't have the clouding issues that Rick is having.

You will, see my latest entry in Rick's log.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This is off topic, but regarding MTS. Now, this is not me, understand - somehow I have infected my other half with a worse case of MTS then me. Hubby just emailed me to ask me to bid on ebay for a 3ft tank for the loungeroom. As I know I will be expected to set up & maintain the tank, I almost hope the bid will be unsuccessful.

Obviously, he likes how my tank looks, so I guess it's a compliment.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You are living the dream of most of us, a partner that has been sucked into the depth of aquaria, it can't get any better .

And about you maintaining all of them: that should be easy for you, given that you run marathons . I assume that soon you can use your weekly maintenance as training units for the Sydney Marathon.

But seriously, keep in mind that you are for sure starting to significantly drive up your water and electricity bills. Also, with more tanks comes a larger financial loss (for replacement) in case of power outages and the like. Maybe soon (if the current shopping spree for new tanks keeps on going like this) you should start thinking about an emergency generator to keep the tanks running.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hubby won the bid. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7763431308&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com.au%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26catref%3DC6%26from%3DR10%26satitle%3D7763431308%26sacat%3D-1%2526catref%253DC6%26bs%3DSearch%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%26sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D1041%26ga10244%3D10425%26ftrt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26fsop%3D1%26fsoo%3D1%26fvi%3D1

Ingo, fancy you knowing about the Sydney Marathon in September. But I have my Club's monthly half marathon to worry about first, and maybe the Canberra Bush Marathon, if I get my act together. Hubby will do that one & wants me to do it as well (although not running together - only did that once - never again).

Cheers
TW

Today I added the ADA substrate, I used 2 litres of Power Sand Special, which is nothing like sand at all. Its a brown lumpy mixture that contains lots of goodies meant to be good for plants & various micro-organisms to create a strong microflora in the substrate. To put on top of the Power Sand Special, I bought 2 x 9 litres bags of Aquasoil Amazonia. I ended up with 1/2 bag left over.

I put the plants in before adding any water, and found that to be a lot easier than in previous plantings. I packed the back half and sides with quick growing wisteria, and used crypts & anubias in the front. I've purposely left a gap in the middle without plants. I'm planning on building a cave section there with rocks & slate - but haven't organized that - so there is a bare space just waiting. I'm going to use silicone to glue them all together, so I can remove them in one go when cleaning the tank. I need to ring the manufacturer to check it's safe. It's says it's aquarium safe, but I want to be sure.

The 1st pic is a shot with substrate & plants, but no water yet. My camera often makes black or dark colours look purple, but I assure you, my background is black & the substrate is a dark, dark brown.

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Cheers
TW

This shot was taken immediately after the tank was filled & the filter turned on. I was really pleased that I did not have any clouding in the water at all. It was cyrstal clear from the first - although with my poor camera, it may not be apparent. Again, ignore the purple - it's just not there in real life.


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Cheers
TW

Here's another shot


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Cheers
TW

And another. The substrate looks the true colour here.

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Cheers
TW

another

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Cheers
TW

another. This is an anubia, but can anyone tell me the variety. I really like it, but LFS only had the one. I'd like to order more in, but don't know it's variety.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Very nice, make sure to check the ph frequently (10 times a day ) so we know when and by how much it drops.

A few thoughts:

- "I've purposely left a gap in the middle without plants." --- Why? I would not do that. I would suggest to forget about beauty for the time being and cram that sucker with fast growers. Your tank should be full of goodies now and rather limited amounts of taking them up. Who do you think is going to make use of them?

- The Anubias pictures looks like a Nana. How did you plant it? Did you make sure the rhizome is all above the substrate?

- You already have fish in there? Again, with the limited plant mass you may experience a cycle.

- I didn't see the entry that your hubby won the other tank until now . I have no idea if you dropped off my Active Thread list or why I missed that. In any way -

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is there a period of time after set-up where I don't need to add my dry ferts. I guess as this is much the same size as the 20G, so they would both share the same fert. schedule.

My plan is to dose with Flourish Excel as per bottle instructions, every 2nd day. To dose with traces on the days in-between in accordance with bottle. Dry ferts, I thought maybe just once a week (mid-week), say 1/4 tspn KN03 & just a pinch of KH2P04.

Does this sound right?

Cheers
TW

I'll test the pH before I go to bed & see what it is. I bought one of those pH pen type testers (I broke my last one, which worked just fine until I put the wrong end in the water My new one, I just can't calibrate it right. Just gives nonsense readings - so it'll be back to the test kits, which I find hard to tell which colour is which.

Your tank should be full of goodies now and rather limited amounts of taking them up. Who do you think is going to make use of them?

Oh, ok. I thought I had a lot of wisteria in there to take care of that, but point taken. Thing is, I now won't be able to get more till the weekend. Maybe I might move some of my java moss balls from the 43.5G. I also have a crypt attached to a rock that I can borrow from that tank & put in this tank. I also have some java moss that I can tie to some slate & put in there temporarily. Will that be enough?

We must have been posting at roughly the same time, as I put in a question about ferts. Do I have the amounts roughly right - but taking in your comments about already having lots of goodies & not much being taken up - should I hold off from implementing a fert schedule for a couple of weeks?

The Anubias pictures looks like a Nana. How did you plant it? Did you make sure the rhizome is all above the substrate?

I found it a funny thing to plant & didn't quite know what to do with it. It had a long horizontal stem, with roots coming out from that. I lightly pushed it into the substrate & so far it's staid put. Is it that vertical stem thing that I shouldn't put below the surface. The roots are so short, I can barely see how it will stay down.

You already have fish in there? Again, with the limited plant mass you may experience a cycle

I had fish in there previous to today's planting & the tank appeared to have finished it's cycle. The same water went back in after the planting that was in the tank before the planting. However, I must have taken too long with the filter off, or it's something in the substrate, but I'm now showing ammonia again - barely testable, but there. When I realised that, I took some fresh matrix & also half the sponges from the 43.5G & put them in this tank to kick start the cycle (again).

I have about 3 weeks or so to get ready for the new residents. These links came from the supplier (not my actual fish, but examples of the species & what they may look like). I assume these are the very best specimens & guess I shouldn't hope mine look as fine as these, but here is a shot of a female http://web.telia.com/~u31506898/bilder/dehanefemale2.jpgand here's one of a male http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/wacichlids/images/dehanesm.jpg. The rocky caves I want to silicone will be for them & I do want them in place by the time they arrive.

Thanks for the advice & words of encouragement.


Cheers
TW

Tested pH from the tap. My kit only shows up to 7.8 & tap water tested at least that, if not higher. It was probably around pH 8.

Tested from the tank. I finished set up around 5.30pm Sydney time & it's now 11.30pm. pH has dropped to 7.0. I had expected lower, but maybe it takes time. I'd like to see it at around 6.5.





Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Wow - 3 entries to reply to

First off, yeah - I think your dosing schedule sounds good, at least to get started. Make sure that you frequently test your parameters to detect any short-comings (or over-ferting) in time so you can correct it before problems occur.

Next - Crypts and Moss Balls will not do too much for stabalizing the tank, in particular the balls grow way too slow (and might get all gunked up with diatoms or algae in the process). But something is better than nothing, I think.

Anubias: the definition of roots based on their orientation is a little weak as it depends on how they have grown (upwards on a rock, flat on something, etc). Basically, the Rhizome is the fat part that has the leaves coming out on the top and the usually whitish roots at the bottom (roughly). You want to make sure that this rhizome is not buried, not even partially.

Fish Species: Looking very nice Robyn, let's hope that it works out this time.

PH: a drop from 8 to 7 within 6 hours is pretty steep, if you ask me. What is the latest reading now that even more time has passed?

Enough for now,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Off topic - just got home from celebrating my daughter's 18th (Wings, yes she's the one you said was a cutie).

Back to topic.

pH tested 6.5, which was what I was promised. Hope that drop wasn't too rough on the resident fishies, but it's probably not too much different to what happened in my C02 tank.

For this tank, I'm happy with the pH lowering - I hope it lasts as promised.

Water is still crystal clear. So far, I'm very happy with my substrate choice.

Cheers
TW

Happy Birthday to your daughter. When is a person considered an Adult with all the rights (and duties) in Australia?

And with the ph: sounds good. Keep us posted if it falls even more. The one question that still lingers in my head is the ph lowering ability of ADA soil. What is the lowering based on (not meaning peat, but ph) ? Does it drop by a certain level no matter what the starting point is (oh, btw, I would assume that if your starting ph is 7 then the end result would probably be more than 1.5 less based on the logarithmic scale of the ph), or does it balance itself always at a certain value (for example 6.5) not caring at what level you come in?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When is a person considered an Adult with all the rights (and duties) in Australia?

Well, they get their learner's license to drive at 16, then provisional license at 17 (you have provisional license for 2 yrs, before full license at 19). At 18, you can drink & vote. 21 is still the bigger birthday, but 18 is when all the other stuff comes into play - so 21 is just the traditional big birthday. This might just be the mum talking, but I wish all this stuff didn't come till she's older.

Does it drop by a certain level no matter what the starting point is

No where on the instructions does it mention a fixed pH level that it will drop to, just that it will lower the hardness and pH level & that it's not recommended with fish that prefer high pH. The supplier of my imported fish is the one that said it would take me to 6.5 & leave me there, but I can find no written confirmation of that on the packaging or instructions - so it will all be an experiment to see what happens.

Anyway, here is a shot of the tank 24hrs later. The temporary plants are in place, although I note your comments. They're all I had at hand. It may still look like there is a gap behind the anubias, but the darkness is java moss (tied to some fake plants & had hanging around).



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Cheers
TW

Thanks for the info, Robyn

The new picture looks nice, I like the Wisteria curtain

Yeah, I guess we will have to wait a while to see what the ph is going to do.

About the KH lowering process: Does that mean that you will have to make sure you still have some left?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

About the KH lowering process: Does that mean that you will have to make sure you still have some left?

My KH tests at 2, which is the same as the water from my tap tests. (Strangely, my 43.5G still tests at KH 5 - so something in that tank must be raising it). But back to this tank, do I need to do anything about KH 2? I remember Bensaf saying that 3 was fine & not to mess with it, but is 2 too low? Should I be doing something with baking powder - how much? Does baking powder mess with pH?

I was looking at my tank full shot pic, just after water went in, then comparing the 24 hour later shot. I'll put the photos here again for ease. Note in the 1st pic you can see the heater, just to the left of centre, poking up above the wisteria. Also note there is quite a big expanse of the back of the tank showing up.

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Cheers
TW

This is 24 hours later. The wisteria is now above the heater, although you can still see the heater through the wisteria, if you're looking for it.


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Cheers
TW

Here's a shot 48 hrs after planting. You can't see the heater anymore. The wisteria has almost reached the water surface, in fact one stem near the left front side has reached the top & is bending over a little. The wisteria in hubby's tank has barely grown & I can only suspect it is the goodies in the soil are are responsible for the good growth.

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Cheers
TW

Oooooohhhhh,

Now that is some nice growth

Or maybe your Wisteria is floating up and the stems are not in the substrate anymore

Sure looks like the Wisteria is taking off like mad. So, besides the substrate, are all other parameters the same, including light source (and age) ? It is very hard to compare two tanks that run under a set of different conditions and single out one of these as the success maker. But I have no doubt that the substrate has something to do with it.

About the KH: I don't think you should mess with it at all as you are not injecting CO2 in any form (other than Excel, which is different). Raising the KH is neeeded to create a buffer for the CO2, otherwise your ph would drop too low. Excel does not alter the ph.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So, besides the substrate, are all other parameters the same, including light source (and age) ?

Both substrates/planting are about the same age, but the non ADA tank had maybe a 4 day head start. It does have lower light though. It has approx 1.1 wpg, the ADA tank has 1.4wpg. They are both these kit aquariums where light is pretty bad. The ADA soil feels so much nicer to plant things in too. My other gravels now feel really heavy, where as this stuff is really light. I really like the colour too, it's not black - but somehow still looks darker than my black gravel. The black gravel now looks grey.

Cheers
TW

My wisteria is growing quite fast, but it is yellow & not lush looking. What causes this, is it a lack of ferts? With this tank on six days a week, it is dosed alternatively with excel & traces. Then once a week it gets just a pinch of KH2P04 & 1/4 tspn KN03.

No C02 in this tank.

Any suggestions on what would help? Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW