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I am starting up a new tank 90L (23.7G). It will be a low tech planted tank & I'll be choosing a substrate from ADA. One of my LFS has told me about ADA complete substrate package which he says:-

consists of Power Sand, Bactor 100, Tourmaline, Long Bottom and Multi Bottom. This creates an "Active Bacterial Substrate base" which is Takashi Amano's System to plant keeping.

The name "aquasoil" & "africana" were mentioned also & he said it's available in black, which is always my colour choice for substrate. The product is new in Australia - everyone else has probably had it available for ages. LFS only ordered a small amount in first time around as a sample, but are checking if they have enough for me.

The tank is an Aqua One AR620. Without taking the light unit apart, I can't see the wattage (tubes facing the wrong way) but I don't need to look to know my lighting level will be low.

To speed cycling along, I took out some media matrix from the filter of my 43.5G tank, as well as 2 sponges from that tank. I also used water from the community tank to half fill the new tank, adding the balance from the tap.

Nothing to see really, but here is a lovely picture of a very empty tank - well just a few cycling fish to help it along.

When I have something else to show, eg substrate / plants, I'll post here again.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The ADA Aqua Soil is what I just put in my tank. Its to early to tell whether I really like it or not yet, but it does contain a lot of fine particles. See my log for pictures. Make sure you have a good filter to clear the water after planting.

Congrats on the new tank BTW.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Robyn,

Hurray - another Log

Well, not much to see yet. I guess by cycling you mean getting the filter seeded, as not much else will be influenced by the bacteria once you empty it again to add the soil.

You should really take a look at Rick's log, if you haven't done so already. From what I know (and that is not much) "africana" does not come in black, it is brown (and very expensive, if you didn't know that). "Amazonia" is black, to my knowledge, or at least it looks black in the pictures.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

at least it looks black in the pictures

Yeah it is a very dark brown. From a distance it looks black, but under the light it still has a brownish tint. But the Amazonia is the darkest of the three. Africana is a medium Brown and Malaya is a light brown.



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks for the heads up on the colour of aqua soil - they told me that africana was black, so I'm glad you told me otherwise. I'd definitely like the black. They told me there was a choice of powdered & normal - which is yours? Think I was told the powder contained more goodies for the plants. I think (but might be wrong) that powder form would make gravel vacuuming harder - cause how do you avoid vacuuming the fine powder substrate up the vac. I'll ask them if they have any Amazonia instead - that's Black - right? I have looked through your log & did notice how cloudy it was. How long did it take to clear up. Did you have to wash the substrate before use. I'm glad you used it, cause I can ask you questions if I go ahead with it.

Re seeding the filter, I'm hoping the emptying & adding of substrate & reloading will be done quickly, without time for whatever bacteria I have dying off. Of course, if the water is as cloudy as your, slickrb, I wont be able to add the fish back straight away. Maybe I can keep the ammonia going by adding food to the tank?

Simple plants like wisteria, java fern & java moss will go in there for starters. Maybe also small swords. The wisteria is really taking off strong in my 43.5G & unlike other plants, the bottom parts don't seem to have gone all stemmy. As they are bent over over, can I just cut off the tops & re-plant them in this tank? will that work?

What other low light plants can I try?

EDIT: slickrb, re-read your post. Are you saying that even Amazonia is not black, but that it's actually brown?


Cheers
TW

Frank, if you read this thread, earlier this year I'm sure you gave me a link to a site that calculated the amount of substrate you need to buy, to be sufficient for a planted tank.

If you still have that link, would you mind letting me have it again. Thanks.

Cheers
TW

robyn-
i'm currently awaiting my order of ADA substrate to arrive, i've also read multiple times that you can use only the aquasoil and not the power sand and bacter, making it MUCH cheaper! an approx saving for your tank would be $100AUS

*Also assuming your 90L tank is 2.5' long i'd say you'd need approx 5L of substrate to have 3 inches in your tank.*

edit: opened my eyes and now realise your tank is not an aquaone- but youcan still key in the dimensions as stated below to work out how much you need.

you can check this by typing your tank dimensions into the tank volume calculator here in FP and then reducing the hight to the amount of substrate you want in inches.

Cynical

p.s. i too am excited about ADA products in aus!

Ok now Robyn,

Let me ask you a question: Why do you want this substrate in the first place? What does it give you that you would need for a low tech and low light setup?



About the amount needed: The US site states that one needs one 2liter bag of power sand (which you don't like) plus one 9liter bag AND one 3liter bag of aqua soil for a 20G tank. I don't know where cynical gets the 5liters from but it seems you would need over twice as much.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Cynical

I've also read multiple times that you can use only the aquasoil and not the power sand and bacter

Why's that? I don't think I want power sand anyway, but the shop I'm dealing with (Slippery Little Suckers in Sydney) mentioned buying these for a planted tank - so it would be good to know the reasons why you shouldn't use them.

opened my eyes and now realise your tank is not an aquaone

It is an aqua one. It's the AR-620.

Hi Ingo,

Why do you want this substrate in the first place? What does it give you that you would need for a low tech and low light setup

The reason LFS suggested the ADA product was for it's pH lowering properties. My pH (without C02) is fairly high (7.8 or above) and those special little imported cichlids apparently like it around 6.5. Those pH down powders are such a pain & the pH jumps back up in a day or so - so that was the 1st reason. Then LFS also talked about the plant growing properties & I thought that was a plus, as I'll always want plants. One day I might end up turning it hi tech, so why not have a good substrate in place. They did say I could add or mix in ordinary gravel too - so if it is not black enough, I could add a layer of black gravel to the top.

But the plot thickens. When I bought this new tank, tank was limited by the size of the cabinet it was to sit on - but I misjudged and the cabinet width was just a tad too short. Today I bought a dirt cheap 2nd hand cabinet and it is big enough to fit a my 43.5G tank or bigger. Mentioned to hubby that if I'd had the cabinet first, I'd have bought a new 43.5G instead. He said he might buy my 23.7G tank off me, so my head is now spinning with possibilities. I have to check out the prices, but what I could do is move my 43.5G tank to the new stand & it would be the low tech tank & future home to cichlids. Then where the 43.5 used to be, I could put a 215L (56.8G). If my measurements are correct, it will just fit in. So this would mean my new tank that I'd be setting up will be the hi-tech tank & it would become all the more important to have the right soils. What fun I could have then. This post is getting long, but I think this would alter what substrates I buy. If this plan goes ahead, I would only buy a small quantity of the ADA aquasoil & spread it around the unplanted areas of the 43.5 (all those bigs rocks would move out & into the 56.8G), so that would be a fair bit of area & hopefully it would be enough ADA for the pH lowering effect.

I wouldn't want the ADA product in the new tank then, because I wouldn't want something to effect the pH, other than my C02. So I'd probably just repeat the substrate that I have in my current hi-tech tank. This is JBL Aqua Basis, with the gravel of my choice on top.

Despite saying the tank would go in the garage, hubby is experimenting with places in the lounge room - so maybe I can help him there & have more fun. He likes goldfish & I may not be able to sweet talk him out of that, but he also is talking about plants, so maybe I can convince him the two don't mix.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,



So basically, you are back to square one

You hubby buys tanks of you? Now that is interesting. I guess you guys don't have a shared account then .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
I believe that picture might be the "minimalist" ideal
impression of aquascaping!

So, is this the one that was relegated to the garage,
or was it brought from the garage, I lost count from
the other post!

Here is the site you were asking about:
http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html

I'm looking to watching this tank grow and mature.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Robyn,

Maybe I'm a bit naive since I don't run C02 in my tank, but if your starting pH is around 7.8 I honestly think you are worrying about it dropping a bit to much.

I would think that with a pH that high from the start their would be enough buffers in your water to handle the ADA, your CO2, and a nice tall glass of high quality Florida Orange Juice that might happen to fall in without lowering your pH to a dangerous level.

The ADA Amazonia is a VERY dark brown. When standing back from the tank or looking at the bag, it looks almost black, but not as black as Tetra's tank. When I bought my soil from ADG they did suggest power sand, but I asked if it was necessary and was told no. They said the aqua soil is fine by itself for most people. I don't know really what the power sand adds but if you are going high tech it may have some benefit. You'll have to research that some.



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Yep, Ingo back to square one Are you able to give me the link for the US amano site please? I'd be interested to read up some more on the products.

Thanks for the link Frank. I'll keep a shortcut in my favourites this time. The shuffle of my tanks at the moment is confusing. But the 20G relegated to the garage is now temporarily sitting empty in the loungeroom, while hubby decides if he will leave it there. If I get the go ahead to buy a bigger tank, the "minimalist" 23.7G tank you see pictured in this thread will take the place of the 20G tank in the loungroom, my 43.5G tank will become the low tech tank & I'll get either a new 43.5G or, better yet, a 56.8G tank to become the hi-tech tank. I don't know what it will mean for the 20G tank.

Maybe I'm a bit naive since I don't run C02 in my tank, but if your starting pH is around 7.8 I honestly think you are worrying about it dropping a bit to much

Hi slickrb, it's been said before that I'm a worrier & no doubt, it's true. But this time it's because there is a C02 calculator where you punch in your pH & gH test results & it tells you your C02 saturation rate. If I play around with my pH, the calculation won't be accurate. However, I'm starting to think that if Amano uses this soil & his tanks also have C02, it must all be compatible. So, I may still use aquasoil & if it's not black enough, I could add a small layer of black gravel on top. Still researching my option on both tanks & substrate.

Thanks for comments & help.

Cheers
TW

robyn,
sorry about my other post i was about to leave work and apparently i was a little sleepier then i thought

but i do have a link for you, an aussie site that sells pretty much all the ADA products, and has info on most of them.

http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com

Cynical

Thanks for the site Cynical.

In case I don't go for the ADA product & I use a say JBL's Aquabasis, with normal gravel on top - can someone please remind how many inches of each I should aim for (so I can use Frank's calcultor to work out what I need).

If I need substrate total height of around 3 inches, how many inches should be the aquabais and how many inches of gravel.

I was told in my earlier January posts, but I don't know how to search for my threads that are no longer active. Sorry to ask the same question again.

Cheers
TW

I have no idea what kind of substrate that is that you are using, but is This The Link you were looking for?

Also, just for the fun of it, This is the Link to the US site that sells ADA products. Click on shop to see the items. The tanks in the gallery are the ones Jeff and his gang set up, aren't they awesome? Now you know why it was so cool that Rick talked to the man himself.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Clever Ingo - how did you find that? I did a search for "substrate" but I didn't find it. Thanks for giving me the link. Thanks to for the ADA link too. Yes, those tanks are awesome. I want that house too. I'd already seen some of Amano's tanks. My husband gave me for our anniversary "Nature Aquarium World" Book 2 by Amano. From what I gather, here in Oz, it is a fairly expensive book. I haven't had a chance to look at the products on the ADA site yet, but I will shortly.

EDIT: read up on the soils & the site was informative. Definitley will consider using this, but won't do anything till I know which tank I'll be using.

BTW, I almost can't believe this. This tank (23.7G) was only seeded on Sunday, so today is day 3. I can barely trust my test results. Today I put in a Seachem permanent ammonia test, which I know aren't all that accurate, but give you a rough guide. I waited & waited for it to turn one of the colours indicating the presence of ammonia - nothing. Indicator says "safe". So out come the test kits. Test Results:- Ammonia Nil. Nitrite: Nil. So, my tank is cycled. My 43.5G tank took 20 days to cycle. LFS told me my new tank would cycle in less than a week if I used media from my already cycled tank, half filled it with water from that tank, tap water for the balance & added the appropriate amount of Hagen "cycle" to the tank daily. I didn't believe him, but it appears he's right. I'm dumbfounded.



Cheers
TW

Clever Ingo

Well, all I really did was to go to search, type in "substrate", then go to my browser Edit menu, select Find, type in "watcher", and it went straight to your thread entry .

About the cycling:

Hagen cycle is supposed to do this ->
In other words, from what I have heard it is not working.

How many fish do you have in that tank?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

Found this link interesting.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/30369-ada-90cm-tank-journal.html

It was made by Jeff senske, the guy at ADA and it shows how he set up one client's tank. Note the way he set up the substrate and how densely he planted from the start. Good advice to follow, me thinks.

---

Back in the saddle!

Hi Ingo

Hagen cycle is supposed to do this.
In other words, from what I have heard it is not working.

How many fish do you have in that tank?

I added Hagen cycle daily to my other tanks, which took 20 days to cycle in January. Adding Hagen cycle daily to this tank too, but also did those extra steps mentioned above. I have 5 platys in the tank. My water from the tap contains ammonia (and the tank was filled with 50% tap water) so, I don't think it's because my tank hasn't had ammonia in it. This fish keeping business has told me just how rotten my water is. Straight out of the tap I have both ammonia & nitrate. Tank still testing today ammonia: nil nitrite: nil.

Still I'm not adding any additional fish, partly because I may have to move the tank & I still have to decide on the substrate. I also can't bring myself to trust it's cycled, although tests indicate it is. No decision on tank swapping yet. This may take some time, in the meantime, my "minimalist" tank remains.

Thanks for the link NowherMan6. I'll look at it tomorrow, as it's late here now. Thanks.

EDIT: Great Link - thanks NowherMan6

Cheers
TW